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Post by Gary Hammond on Jul 2, 2011 11:34:09 GMT -5
Hi Leonard,  Glad to hear Sharon is back home and doing well! ;D And yes, that's your master cylinder right where it should be. Looks like a lot of rust on the lines and also on the floor pan from what I can see in the picture. You should replace all badly rusted lines and any cracked or brittle rubber lines.  Gary Hammond,   |
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Jul 2, 2011 12:43:22 GMT -5
 I hope this is a picture of my Master Cyl. Looks like it is in the correct place. Previously you stated that " My master is in the center of the car and not at all like the skematic." Your master is not in the center, it is exacly where it should be, if you follow the line that enters the firewall you will find that it works it's way around and under the pedal assy then hugs the outside of the tunnel then passes through the rear firewall where it connects to a brass "T" located on the left frame horn. This line can be run in the stock location as described above, or you can drill a hole through the "floor" to the left of the master. Install a grommet in the hole and run the line through the grommet then into the floor pan lip {where the pan to body bolts are}. A few holes drilled in the vertical edge of the lip to secure the line with either zip ties or tube clamps.Run it to the back and come up between the rear firewall and the torsion housing. If you know someone with a BUBBLE flaring tool you can get a roll of 3/16 steel brake line {about $10 for 25 feet}and reuse the existing fittings. Simply drill the old line out of them with a 3/16 bit. Do not use a DOUBLE flare tool to make the Bubble flare. This line can be made installed and bled in under an hour. A little longer if you follow the factory location. About the factory location, the original tabs that held the line to the side of the tunnel are probably rotten. The 25' roll is more than enough to do the whole car. |
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 2, 2011 13:42:17 GMT -5
I just checked my Napa store and they have Bubble flare tubing, but it cost a bunch more that regular flare. They recommened getting a bubble flare tool, and 25 ft of tubing and doing exactly what you said. The other thought was buy adapters, $6.00 for an end fitting, and $2.00 for splicers fittings, and doing it with stock double flare. He had 60 inch long max., so would need to spice, especially if I go the under the floor route. I'm going to go look for a bubble flare tool and see what they cost or see if I can rent one.
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Post by mrbigh on Jul 2, 2011 14:41:37 GMT -5
Yep, it is
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stevevw
Full Member
Part VW part Porsche , all Bradley
Posts: 117
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Post by stevevw on Jul 2, 2011 16:30:35 GMT -5
Yes it is in the right place the diagram I showed you was just of the pan .2 bolts 3 brakes lines and 2 inlet lines and she will come out . Also the brake line switch wires
Darn wish I could do it for you..........
Fluid inside the tunnel is still intriguing me ,It looks wet right under the master right there .
Usually when one goes bad it will leak where the push rod goes in .unless it is an internal failure .
We are cheering for ya , I have had some great Brad weather last couple days .
Still my most favorite car to drive
Good luck to you.
Ack I missed Dan's post some how , oh well my take on it too.
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 3, 2011 19:41:29 GMT -5
i was checking on Bubble flare tools, and It looks like I can buy one, OTC 4504, for around $31 with shipping. Now that is a single or double flare? The one quoted is a single, ISO Bubble. I thought that the bubble made it a double when you tightened it up. Now I see one for sale that says double bubble flare?
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Jul 4, 2011 5:46:02 GMT -5
otc 4504 is a BUBBLE flare tool. Just what you need
iso bubble is a one step process. Double is a 2 step. They are formed at different angles.
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 5, 2011 11:32:22 GMT -5
Bubble flaring tool on order. As soon as I can find room in the garage, daughter is visiting, I will block up the Brad and get started.
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 6, 2011 22:11:21 GMT -5
My bubble flare tool came today. Now trying to think how to gage how long to cut the tubing. It is not easy to form a bead, tried one just see. Takes a lot of strength and leverage. I can't see doing it in a tight place.
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Post by roughly on Jul 10, 2011 0:21:34 GMT -5
yup you will get the popeye forarms ... i did it with stainless lines! talk about hard.
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Post by thehag71 on Jul 11, 2011 2:50:47 GMT -5
Don't cut the l8ines until you have the bends in place. Start at one side, put your flare on that side, then use the old line as a template, or measure carefully and make your bend. Continue following template or measuring until all bends are correct and in place, then measure the final amount needed and make the flare. don't forget that the total length you need is longer than the finished product and don't forget to leave that last little bit extra for forming the flare.
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 11, 2011 10:11:59 GMT -5
This is what I was planning to do. It's the one that runs though the car that I am worried about. Once it's threaded through the car, it needs to be bent and flared in place. Not a lot of room.
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Post by thehag71 on Jul 12, 2011 3:12:39 GMT -5
worst case scenario you run the entire line in one piece and spend some uncomfortable time bending and flaring with no room to work and lots of cussing and... OR, you bend say the front half first and run the straight section of tubing into car along tunnel halfway. Then bend the rear section and run the straight section of tubing into car along tunnel halfway. Put in a double sided compression union and call it done. I know that you aren't SUPPOSED to put any unions into brake lines, but they work, they save time and they won't leak if they are installed correctly. Don't overtighten thinking that the tighter you get it the less chance of leaking.
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Post by thehag71 on Jul 12, 2011 3:25:49 GMT -5
Or you may be able to put all bends in, put the flares on each end and twist/turn it so it feeds through the car. I haven't looked at my bradley for a while so I am not sure how many bends are in the brake lines or how complex they are, but it should be a long straight tube that goes through the body along the tunnel and then maybe a bend or three to meet up with the master cylinder and a junction block to split the tube to go to each rear wheel. Most of the complex bends should be between the master cylinder and the front wheels, and the junction block and the rear wheels. I can certainly go look at my bradley later today, but I have to remove all of the pieces for the bradley out of the interior before I can see anything.
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Jul 12, 2011 3:49:02 GMT -5
The line nuts fit through the holes in the chassis. Measure, slip a piece of 3/16 neoprene hose over each end to serve as a grommet, flare, feed through holes, install,
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 12, 2011 9:17:58 GMT -5
Or you may be able to put all bends in, put the flares on each end and twist/turn it so it feeds through the car. I see a problem with that. I could twist the tubing maybe to get in the first hole, but no twisting would allow to fit through the second hole. The Junction sounds like a great idea. I should have garage space in a few days and am anxious to get started. the grommet is a good idea also. |
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Post by jspbtown on Jul 12, 2011 10:29:11 GMT -5
Running it under is really a very good alternative.
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Jul 12, 2011 12:52:51 GMT -5
Running it under is really a very good alternative. You are 100% right. There is nothing wrong with doing this and is in fact better if your car is carpeted and there is any chance of water getting in. The line will not be under the wet carpet rusting. Under the car it gets to dry off and it's condition is easy to see and much easier to repair if need be. |
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 15, 2011 22:16:19 GMT -5
I got the left rear line replaced tonight. Only 4 more to go. Boy, they have to line up just right or the threads won't start!
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 16, 2011 19:04:21 GMT -5
Got a good start on the brake lines. Front and back replaced, but not the one that runs through the car. It does go beside the tunnel just like all of you said.  I stand corrected . It seems that the leak is in the master cylinder and coming out the back. Somehow it is getting inside the tunnel and dripping from there. I blocked the rear brake line and tried to pump up the front, but couldn't get any petal pressure. Now I have all the lines off of the master, and the two screws out from inside the car, and have no idea how to get it loose. It is set in there like a rock. I even unscrewed the plunger inside the car from the pusher (clevis), but still tight. Does it just need a bigger hammer? |
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Post by smyrnaguy on Jul 16, 2011 20:21:37 GMT -5
Usually there's a clip that retains that clevis to the pedal. Its best to remove the clip, then slide the clevis free of the pedal. That way you don't have massive adjustment of the pushrod length to do. More than likely its either rust or paint or a combination that is holding the master cylinder in place. If you have everything disconnected then rap the frontmost end of the MC toward the tunnel. Then rap it toward the wheel opening. It will come loose. You might check to see if a PO has sealed the plunger hole with RTV. If so you'll have to dig it out first. I've seen it done before but still don't understand why.
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 16, 2011 22:42:13 GMT -5
I was just worried there was another screw or somewhere holding it in. The push rod should come out with the cylendar with or without the clip being removed? Or does is the push rod part of the brake petal assembly?
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stevevw
Full Member
Part VW part Porsche , all Bradley
Posts: 117
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Post by stevevw on Jul 17, 2011 0:05:53 GMT -5
Only the 2 bolts holding it from the inside . The push rod is attached to the pedal cluster via a small e clip and the return spring . I was fixing a sticky throttle cable on my bug and when I pulled the cluster my master was dripping out the back like yours . So off to the VW parts store Monday.
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Jul 17, 2011 5:35:53 GMT -5
There are 2 tubes between the firewall sides that the 2 master cyl bolts pass through. Make sure they do not fall out/
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 17, 2011 7:53:59 GMT -5
All good to know. Today is a day for my wife, so will not be doing any Bradley work. |
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 17, 2011 15:49:48 GMT -5
Man, I hate when I do stupid things. I knew I needed 5/16 stainless steel carriage bolts and nuts to replace my seat, and bought 3/8. Now have to drive back to DeKalb (16 miles) to exchange them.
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Post by horen2tas on Jul 17, 2011 20:21:59 GMT -5
Drill 'em out!
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 17, 2011 22:36:50 GMT -5
No such luck. The carriage bolts have to fit into the square hole and the head has to fit into the track. No hurry, I will get what I need by the time I get ready to put the seat back in.
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Jul 18, 2011 11:21:21 GMT -5
Don't feel bad. I made a run to town [$10 gas each time] about 9 times a month since Sept to get things for my GT2. Going again now.
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Post by leonardabell on Jul 21, 2011 10:54:10 GMT -5
There are 2 tubes between the firewall sides that the 2 master cyl bolts pass through. Make sure they do not fall out/ Boy are you right on that one, It took 1.5 hours trying to get one to line up and I wound up grinding .050 off of the spacer to get it to fit in. The old master had adapters for the bubble and the new one doesn't. Now I may be 3/4 of an inch short on my new lines. We'll see when I get it installed. |
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I stand corrected 
