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Post by pushnfords on Jun 4, 2010 23:31:03 GMT -5
If you were going to order either a turnkey 1776 or a long block to outfit with dual carbs, chrome tin, etc. which one would it be and from what supplier?
Guess what I'm ordering next!
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Post by mj on Jun 5, 2010 6:49:56 GMT -5
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glenn
Junior Member
Posts: 68
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Post by glenn on Jun 5, 2010 7:22:41 GMT -5
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Post by mj on Jun 5, 2010 8:37:45 GMT -5
You don't want chrome tin. Almost all aftermarket fan shrouds, especially the chrome ones, do not have the correct internal vanes that route the air properly. They are junk.
I think your client is getting into trouble with some of his ideas.
Look at Raby's DTM (Down The Middle) shrouds. Very good stuff.
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Post by jspbtown on Jun 5, 2010 9:39:33 GMT -5
Chico motors have very high ratings.
A little more cost effective may be MOFOCO
CB also sells quality stuff.
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Post by mj on Jun 5, 2010 9:49:00 GMT -5
MOFOCO is trouble. Mismatched parts, used parts.
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Post by pushnfords on Jun 5, 2010 10:20:07 GMT -5
The links below go to Jake Raby's company. If you go for the goodies, the price will run up to $10,000 for one T4 engine, but you can get a good economy engine for much less. Call him. Thanks for the links...I'll check it out. I think it may be a little more then he wants to spend but I'll ask. I sent the owner a bunch of links to engines from forum suggestions and he asked about a turnkey 1776 from Mid America for $3K. I don't want to assemble the engine in my garage. I'm not a shop owner...I just have an old ratty two car garage and 1/2 is absolutely packed with tools and some Power Wheels for my daughter. I've built a few engines in there but I can't keep them 100% clean during assembly. heres like to cb preformance do it your self motors That was one of the kits I showed the owner to start with. Due to time issues and me not having a good area to assemble the engine we decided to go with a turnkey or assembled long block. Look at Raby's DTM (Down The Middle) shrouds. Very good stuff. Those do look very nice! If those are too expensive is my next best option to paint/powdercoat the original tin? Chico motors have very high ratings.
Ok....how about which engine would you pick that comes as an assembled longblock for around $3K? I've been amazed at the options out there...but very expensive as well! lol |
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Post by jspbtown on Jun 5, 2010 10:23:14 GMT -5
MJ...I think they may have turned around some. At least according to the latest Samba reviews.
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Post by Jeff Troy on Jun 5, 2010 12:05:10 GMT -5
Pay strict attention to MJ's advice about aftermarket chrome tins. They're all crap -- every one -- and they do not duct airflow correctly.
One look at any of them next to a stock German part will show you a world of difference. "Cheap" isn't about price. It's about quality, and those parts are dictionary cheap!
Warmest,
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Zmud
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Zmud on Jun 5, 2010 14:16:24 GMT -5
I've had chrome tins for 10 years now and never had one problem with cooling. AND NO NOT ALL OF THEM ARE CRAP!....some people are to quick to bash somethings!   |
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Post by mj on Jun 5, 2010 16:45:33 GMT -5
So, zmud, how many miles do you have on that lump with no partitions, and what brand is that chrome fan shroud?
I am not quick to condemn. Not after 64 years being there.
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Zmud
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Zmud on Jun 5, 2010 17:19:54 GMT -5
So, zmud, how many miles do you have on that lump with no partitions Yeah, this junker has 5000 trouble free miles! and many more to go if cooling permits! I guess I should've done things differently huh? I'm not saying my car's the best, but not to many cars i've seen on here can compare!!!.... |
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Post by mj on Jun 5, 2010 17:26:39 GMT -5
So, zmud, how many miles do you have on that lump with no partitions Yeah, this junker has 5000 trouble free miles! and many more to go if cooling permits! I guess I should've done things differently huh? I'm not saying my car's the best, but not to many cars i've seen on here can compare!!!.... 5,000 miles over 10 years? That's crazy and nothing to brag about, and you admit "if cooling permits." What's that, maybe a drive to Big Boy a few times a year? Your set-up is crap. Nobody should buy those poseur tins unless, of course, they are just posing. |
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Zmud
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Zmud on Jun 5, 2010 17:44:43 GMT -5
5,000 miles over 10 years? That's crazy and nothing to brag about, and you admit "if cooling permits." What's that, maybe a drive to Big Boy a few times a year? Your set-up is crap. Nobody should buy those poseur tins unless, of course, they are just posing. So what 5k in 10yrs I live in chicago and get to drive the car 3 months out of the year and that's between work and weekends. cooling permiting was a joke and I know my set-up is not CRAP!! Not posing or anything like that either!!! Maybe you should just sit online some more and bash something because your opinon sucks!I'll be driving my junk crap set-up and you can keep giving opinoins!!.... |
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Post by mj on Jun 5, 2010 17:52:32 GMT -5
Your driving averages One-Point-Three miles a day. I ride a bicycle more than that every day. And when you say you live in Chicago, then just where in Chicago? I'm from 53rd and Blackstone. I know Chicago. Or do you live in some kinda 'burb?
Give it up. You have a crap setup.
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Post by centralvalleygter on Jun 5, 2010 19:08:20 GMT -5
mj
Is something heavy going on in your life? I don't remember your being quite so sarcastic and critical in the past as your posts have been in the last few days. While your opinion may have value, it loses its effectiveness when served so sharply.
Or maybe, speaking of posers, someone else is posting under his name. The posts sound more like a teen ager than an adult!
I've used stock and aftermarket tins. I currently have a chrome offset shroud on my Bradley. It did not have vanes and that was not a problem until I punched it so I could have a heater. I had to put some vanes in it to direct the air to the heater outlets. Mine is a daily driver in Central California where the summer temperatures routinely stay above 100 degrees for days. I watch my temperature gauge carefully and have a remote oil cooler with an autoswitch fan. I have not had it get close to overheating (oil temp high of about 190 degrees). However, my engine size is conservative with 1641cc with dual Kadrons. While I agree that the aftermarket parts are often of lower quality in terms of thickness, design and fit, it does not render them completely unusable. Life is about making choices and compromises.
Just be aware of the plusses and minuses when making your choice, then choose and live with it or be willing change it later, if necessary.
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Zmud
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Zmud on Jun 5, 2010 23:26:44 GMT -5
Thanks centalvalley for at least seeing that everyone has a different set-up and different things sometimes work.I've had a good experence with chrome tin's and it looks good and work's for me. MJ's opinion mean's sh*t to me he must think he's the f'n nazi that built the vw!and he must have learned his math from 53rd and blackstone(i'd like to see ya revisit your old neighborhood!)I wrote him off as the site A*S HOLE! My car looks good and works and I have 10 1st place trophey's to prove it!!!!!So he can sit in his garage and look at his car that is probably half finished and keep talking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MJ has some problems!!!!
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Post by didget69 on Jun 6, 2010 0:35:09 GMT -5
Find an engine BUILDER in your local area to assemble a 1776 motor for your car. Talk to the local VW club guys & get their input on the local area engine builders.
Avoid GEX like it's the clap...
There is a big difference in engine builders and engine assemblers...
Skip the chrome tinware; the German engineers painted it black for a reason; to help shed heat. The original German tin is your BEST option for the money, period.
bnc
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Post by centralvalleygter on Jun 6, 2010 0:35:09 GMT -5
I would not judge mj on the post from the last couple of days, I still suspect that mj has automatic login on his computer and a visiting teen is posting under his login.
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Zmud
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Zmud on Jun 6, 2010 1:54:14 GMT -5
I would not judge mj on the post from the last couple of days, I still suspect that mj has automatic login on his computer and a visiting teen is posting under his login. I sure hope so...I thought he was cool till he started bashing!  |
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Post by mj on Jun 6, 2010 7:51:47 GMT -5
zmud wrote: "he must have learned his math from 53rd and blackstone(i'd like to see ya revisit your old neighborhood!)" I had to smile when I read that. 53rd and Blackstone isn't far from Obama's house. The area is just fine. It is close to the University of Chicago where I worked. You are as likely to run into a Nobel Prize winner as a thief there.  Now, look at this picture of a German shroud cut in half to show the vanes. Note the aerodynamic shape of the vanes. Air-flow is not an intuitive thing. An awful lot of thought, experiments and corrections were made over the years to make the air flow properly. Even Jake Raby, who was once a military aircraft mechanic, was impressed by the subtlety and ingenuity of the design when he researched and experimented to improve the DTM shroud. The DTM took many years to invent (the late Joe Locicero pioneered the DTM design) and Jake took years to finesse the later version. FWIW, measuring the enigne temp and oil temp is also non-intuitive. A hot spot can be hidden and wreak havoc while the sensors read AOK.. |
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Post by jspbtown on Jun 6, 2010 10:03:38 GMT -5
OK...here is my analogy on chrome vs painted...or aftermarket vs German...fo whatever it is worth. Chrome tin is like a Ferrari. It looks cool and has alot of "wow" factor. German tin is like a Honda. Nothing exciting, but it will get you where your going and do it well for a long time. So...what does your client want and what does he plan on doing with his project? Does he plan on driving it to the grocery store, maybe a couple of cruises, or bringing his kid to school? If so...go Ferrari (chrome). It will do the job. It will do it for as long as his interest in the car lass. It wil ook cool when he shows it off and people will be impressed. Or does he plan on using it as his daily driver? Potentially putting hundreds of miles a week on it. Does he plan on driving it everywhere, and is he 100% sure his interest won't wane after 10k miles of driving a car like this (most people do lose interest)? If driving it like crazy (maybe not Jeff Troy crazy....but you know what I mean) then go Honda (German tins). He will be happy. Me personally? I go 100% flash for my buggies. Plenty of cooling with the engine fully exposed. Plus it looks cool!  I have painted them with Hammertone finish too:  And high temp paint as well:  And my client even bought a very nice...and expensive...dressed one for his Bradley:  So...figure out what your client wants and build it for him. Does he want the "wow its a Ferrari, and I don't care if it last 100k miles" or does he want "take a look at my uber reliable Honda....I drive it everywhere". |
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Post by mj on Jun 6, 2010 11:59:30 GMT -5
You always do great work, jspbtown. I can't disagree with your take on the client-view.
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Zmud
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by Zmud on Jun 6, 2010 12:36:16 GMT -5
You always do great work, jspbtown. I can't disagree with your take on the client-view. funny how one person's opinion changes everything! jspbtown i'm suprised he didn't call your set-up crap! because your car's look like mine done and complete/w chrome!....just sayin'!!!!! |
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Post by mj on Jun 6, 2010 12:37:49 GMT -5
Give it up, Muddy. We were talking about different things.
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Post by pushnfords on Jun 6, 2010 18:56:29 GMT -5
So...what does your client want and what does he plan on doing with his project? Does he plan on driving it to the grocery store, maybe a couple of cruises, or bringing his kid to school? If so...go Ferrari (chrome). It will do the job. It will do it for as long as his interest in the car lass. It wil ook cool when he shows it off and people will be impressed. Or does he plan on using it as his daily driver? Potentially putting hundreds of miles a week on it. Does he plan on driving it everywhere, and is he 100% sure his interest won't wane after 10k miles of driving a car like this (most people do lose interest)? If driving it like crazy (maybe not Jeff Troy crazy....but you know what I mean) then go Honda (German tins). He will be happy. So...figure out what your client wants and build it for him. Does he want the "wow its a Ferrari, and I don't care if it last 100k miles" or does he want "take a look at my uber reliable Honda....I drive it everywhere". Uber reliable = yes. He has made that clear from day one. He also wants the engine to look great. After I told him about some of the tin not fitting quite right and/or missing things inside he is more than willing to just have the old tin powdercoated. Amount of use? My understanding is he plans on using this as a daily driver weather permitting. He is retired so that means running errands, local car shows, etc. Will he get tired of it? Honestly I don't think so. He has had several Triumphs or MGs and I really don't think they'd be that much different to drive around in. I could be wrong...neither of us has drive a Beetle or Bradley before. We are currently looking at long blocks. There are lots of turn key engines out there but I've already purchased a distributor, wires, coil, and a few other things. Because of time constraints I've been trying to order ahead so everything is ready to go and I'm not waiting on parts. Plus with a long block we don't have to worry about the tin one way or another. Now the big question is where does the long block come from? He has heard about a local mechanic that is supposed to know VW's very well. I'm not very trusting of shops and I've never heard of this guy but will check into it. Otherwise I'm wanting to go with one of the vendors that have been reviewed over on thesamba.com. So far NSRACING has been very helpful and even offered to meet me along I70 to save on shipping of the engine and core. As for power level...not sure yet. If he had asked me to build a '66 Fairlane as a quick daily driver I'd know where to start. My experience is in domestics including my '70 Torino. PS - As to the advice of finding the local VW club...there isn't one. In this part of KS we have small towns and cities that are all around 40-50 miles from each other. Only one nearby city (Manhattan) has a car club...I used to be a member. Generally they just meet up to gossip and tell jokes and once in a while go on a trip. No local clubs are brand specific and I honestly don't remember ever seeing a local VW that was involved in a club. |
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Post by mj on Jun 6, 2010 19:04:06 GMT -5
I don't believe that you are building this for a 'client'. It is for yourself. Why are you pretending?
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Post by pushnfords on Jun 6, 2010 20:06:43 GMT -5
I don't believe that you are building this for a 'client'. It is for yourself. Why are you pretending? Lol, I don't have enough money in my bank account to buy the carbs much less the motor. Not sure why anyone would pretend to build a car for someone else. Honestly it would be a lot easier to build this car for myself. I know what I want...I don't always know what he wants. Here's the full story: The year after high school I went to KSU for "General Engineering" and joined the local car club. There I met Ken (the Bradley's owner) and found out he knew my mom and aunt in college. He was having an IH pickup customized that he inherited and introduced me to the shop owner who I then started working for. I wasn't very happy with KSU and transferred to McPherson College and graduated from their auto restoration program. During college I'd worked at a hot rod/street rod shop and after graduation I spent a little over 2.5 years working at a shop restoring Auburns and Cords. Meanwhile Ken shuffled his IH from one shop to another and had a bad experience with them all. I eventually moved back to the area where Ken lives and started working a job doing mechanic work on military equipment. I got back in touch with the car club and Ken and did a few small jobs for Ken (setting points on a Nash & getting it running for example) and another guy in the club who I became friends with. I moved again and lost touch with most of the car club guys. One day Ken was getting a haircut and realized the barber was my uncle and my uncle mentioned some work I'd done on his truck. Shortly after that Ken emailed me and asked if I was doing side work. I told him I was still doing it here and there and he asked me to build the Bradley for him. |
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Post by big bob on Jun 7, 2010 13:29:25 GMT -5
Zmud,
i think your car is fine. i even have a picture of it on my site under the "owners pics" section.
the thing i like most about it, is.... its finished! having a finished car is quite a feat to complete here, so kudos for that.
i dont care if your tin is chrome, or painted, or rust. so, dont let the opinions of some dampen your spirit, they are just that opinions. i think that somewhere in this thread, opinions gave birth to something bigger.....anger. dont give in to that.
i think its fine to voice your opinion, even if its different, especially if its different. but when opinion turns to other things, uglier things. then its time to zip it..
big bob
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doug
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Post by doug on Jun 7, 2010 20:39:30 GMT -5
Heres my thoughts on this thread:
get the car done how you want it. body work, wiring, and paint,
then get the engine, your needs may change by the time the body is finished, and warranty past date by the time its ready for the road. Engines are readly available depending on what you want to spend, just me but I would worry about that way on down the road.
Mine does just fine with a stock engine. Remember, its a KIT CAR.
no one said its a sports car
Doug
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