vwguy
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Post by vwguy on Dec 30, 2014 23:29:52 GMT -5
I fell in love with the kit cars back in the 70's shorty after they came out. My Dad had a subscription to kit car mag for years and I think I made off with every issue when he was done with it and read them over and over. Out of all of the kits the came out over the years the Bradley (1 & 2) the sebring and of course the Laser 917 were my favorites. I owned a Bradley GT in the late 90s and had a blast with it but a last, young, dumb and full of ... I went tearing through a parking lot and hit another car coming through. So I've been looking for a replacement ever since. I let a 917 slip through my fingers as someone else bought it 2 days before payday. I thought I hit the jackpot a few weeks ago. I purchased a GT2. The guy drove 2 hours to deliver it to me, but he procrastinated so long that he arrived after dark (on purpose?). I made the mistake accepting it after of looking at it in the dark. When he rolled it off of the trailer and inside my well lighted shop, I saw the sow's ear I was buying to make a silk purse out of. This thing is an empty shell with a 1969 autostick trans and what I think is a 1500 sp engine (with no carb and a stock genny even ). By shell I mean the only glass I have is the two little rear windows and one of them is cracked. It's even missing one tail light which claimed he had in one of the many boxes. The crook took my money before he got it off the trailer and then refused to cancel the deal. So now I'm stuck with it. Of course I can't find another sucker to sell it to, if I even could bring myself to rip someone else off. But mostly my honesty won't let me mislead anyone like he did me. I tell prospective buyers everything and they walk away. So that leaves me with plan B and I guess the "B" stands for Build. So here are my thoughts, and stop me if you've heard this one  . 1. Is there any glass that is close enough to the rear hatch to make it work? 2. I was thinking about making the doors, rear hatch and trunk all work on electric motors . Much like the rear hatch on the Cadillac Escalade works. I thought I should hide a manual relies just in case the power is ever a problem. 3. Although I don't want to go through the hassle and expense of converting it to electric, I was thinking of cutting in the front "trunk" just like the battery box for the GT2e. Just not sure it would be more trouble then it's worth. I have to build a new gas tank anyway since mine is missing and could relocate it just about anywhere for the refit. are there any structural issues I should watch out for when making this kind of mod? 4. I have a guy that says he can build a street legal windshield out of plexy. I didn't think that there was any form of plastic that is street legal, is there? 5. I'm also thinking of installing a cruse control. (because I'm a lazy bastard and I like the darn things  ) I have a boat repair guy who is helping me with the fiberglass work (it needs a lot) and an expert mechanic who is helping with the rest. The three of us are going to be getting together, taking photos, lots and lots of photos and then doing a work up of our plan of attack on this project. I'll post them and our outline when we get it figured out. Jeremy )the boat guy) has a friend who is doing an e conversion for someone else who he will be bringing in as an adviser on this project and I am very much looking forward to hearing his input. If anyone has any suggestions that I could bring to the table I would be grateful. |
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Post by jspbtown on Dec 31, 2014 9:35:01 GMT -5
Well here is my take...and its based on the build of 11 different kits over the years. Others may have different opinions but here is mine:
1. Its been a while since I built (and sold) my GTII but I thought that the rear glass was a flat plate. If so then any glass shop should be able to cut a piece of either tempered or laminated safety glass for you.
2. Small linear actuators are your best bet for moving things. You should upgrade at least the headlights. However, for your doors you would need an appropriate stroke and then they become quite large and bulky. You really should consider building it with the stock struts and then consider how, and more importantly IF, you want to upgrade the doors. The front trunk would be quite simple. The rear hatch would be bulky and unattractive in my opinion.
3. The more you cut the more you will need to add structure.
4. In order to be "street legal" the windshield must have a stamped certification on it. I am aware of no windshield made of plastic that has that stamping. before you believe your "guy" I would check with your local RMV and the inspection process. Some states are more liberal than others. I would never...ever...rely on some "guys" knowledge...no matter who they are.
5. Sure...you can install it if you want. It might work on some nice flat roads but given the lower output of the VW engine and the need to shift gears to keep the car in the correct RPM range it will likely be of limited use (depending on your driving).
My biggest piece of advice is this....Build it first...then modify it. When the plans get grand the only thing most people end up with is an empty wallet and a yard ornament. That's why you got the car like you did. Wild plans and a foundation that is not designed for most of them.
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Post by horen2tas on Dec 31, 2014 20:43:55 GMT -5
FYI the rear glass is not flat - it's got a slight curve to it. Contact board member Bob Evans, he's got a load of them. I have a storage shed full of them....only problem is that they weigh 38 pounds a piece and are glass...Will sell for $50...but depending on where you are..packaging and shipping will eat your lunch...Now if you are coming through New Mexico that will be a different story...  By the way if someone wants to take these off my hands, I will sell the whole lot for $10.00 each..I think there are 90 of them...They are new old stock from Viracon...and no I don't have any windshields...I sold all I had last year and it looks like I might have sold them too cheap....Sorry... Bobevans |
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Post by horen2tas on Dec 31, 2014 20:46:20 GMT -5
Also from bobevans this may be of interest to you: A friend of mine has a GT2 top and doors for sale in New Mexico...I don't know how to post pics, but can email them if you are interested..He is building a roadster from a Brad that I sold him..No glass, just the top sell to the highest bidder...Also I have several GT2 rear hatch windows that I will sell for $10 each if you buy them all...there are at least 50 or so of them...Cannot ship, as they weigh 38 pounds each... Good to be back on the board..and very involved in building a Mini T dune buggy right now...Hope to get another Brad soon... bobevans ..Alamogordo, New Mexico |
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vwguy
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Posts: 9
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Post by vwguy on Jan 1, 2015 14:07:37 GMT -5
Hi Jspbtown, thank you for all your counsel and advice. I think you are very right, build first, modify later. My team is a little enthusiastic about doing the mods first. But I think your reasoning is very accurate.
On point 5 I'm not sure what you mean. I drove VWs all over Arizona and I don't recall the need for shifting a lot going up hills. I had a Baja with a 1600 dp, a 62 bus with a 15 sp, a Bradley with a 1935 dp, 67 K.G. with a 1600dp. I drove truck for 10 years and they all had curse control with a kill switch connect to both the clutch and break. Sure, I couldn't use it on long hills but over all it was rather handy. Around here (western Washington state) there are long stretches of flat land. I'm going to make this car my daily driver.
I had never heard of linear actuators before but I found them shortly after I created this thread! I'm stoked!! The biggest challenge now is how to connect them to a remote control. I am definitely not an electrification. But I will be bringing the idea up in our next build meeting, I'm sure the team will be able to figure it out. If we can figure out how to make them work on the remote (up and down) I'm thinking of adding them to my wife's '05 Sorento hatch. But standard door struts are cheap enough that, once again, I think you are right about starting with them then upgrade from there. But since we will be redoing all of the wiring before we install the interior I think it would be wise to run the wires at that time.
On your point about putting the electric actuators on the back hatch. That gives me a moment of pause. In the picture the actuators didn't look a whole lot bigger then normal struts, however, perhaps I should order the ones for the door and then make a decision about the hatch, thanks for that one.
All of your suggestions fives me a few things to think about. I think the best advice of all is "build first, modify later". I'm going to follow it. That way if the mods never get done the worst case is I have a running car that is only primered.
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vwguy
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Post by vwguy on Jan 1, 2015 14:18:30 GMT -5
Hi Bob, thank you for your offer of the back glass. do you know what the shipping would be to Tacoma Wa? I'm figuring on $150 for the back glass from a donor car that is close enough for me to modify (or have cut to fit). I did notice that it is not flat, however flat would work although it wouldn't look as good. In fact I was thinking of using Lexan and matching the curve of the car to create a smooth line all the way down the back, but I haven't decided if that will look right. I kind of like the way the fast back glass looks on the GT1, but I also like the stock glass too, so decisions, decisions... Sometimes it better to not have options :-)
-George
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vwguy
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Posts: 9
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Post by vwguy on Jan 1, 2015 14:19:49 GMT -5
Does anyone have any thoughts on the Autostick? I've never used one so I don't know how well (or badly) they preform.
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Post by horen2tas on Jan 2, 2015 8:10:54 GMT -5
I suggest you send a PM to bobevans,
not sure how often he taps into the board anymore.
FYI, I posted the quote from him since I knew he had the rear windows.
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Post by jspbtown on Jan 2, 2015 9:37:31 GMT -5
Linear actuators are significantly more bulky than the stock struts. You will need to determine if you need one or two. If its one you need to make sure you are reinforced enough on that side to handle the stress of lifting a panel that was designed to be lifted in two spots. If you use two then you need to make sure they are sync'd so they don't twist the panel.
You will also need to address the locking mechanism to release properly so your actuators don't rip the panel apart.
When I built my Avenger I had the rear and front sections on actuators. I used electric bear claw latches and had to make sure everything was sync'd. I also had to make the actuators quick release, as well as the bear claw latches, in case of a power failure. It was lots and lots of work.
Just think...you install actuators in the doors. One end is pinned to the body and one pinned to the door. Power goes out....how are you going to get in?
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vwguy
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Post by vwguy on Jan 3, 2015 13:21:34 GMT -5
Thank you horen2tas. I see now where I misread that. You quoted an old post from bob. Guess that's what I get for not paying attention to the details.
I hope you guys don't mind so many questions. I see that you are well experienced with working on different designs and variations on kit cars so I am trying to learn from your experiences thereby reducing my mistakes and setbacks.
about the doors, I was planing to install a manual relies in case of power failure. The actuators that I have played with in the past allow for manual operation so I was assuming that the linear ones would operate the same way. If not I will have to figure out a manual override.
On structural integrity, I would think that 2 struts would minimize the sheer force on the panel, wouldn't it? Wouldn't 2 put even stress across the entire surface and create less sheer force? 2 struts whould devide the load evenly as apposed to one taking all of the stress in one location, right? I know I'm not exactly saying that right, the proper phraseology escapes me right now., It's been a long time since I have dealt with these kinds of concept. 10 years of driving truck and 8 years doing environmental protection work has dulled my engineering senses ;-) But there was a time when...
But even with all this considered, it kinda sounds like I would be better off installing an electric switch for the latch first and concentrating on making sure it works smoothly under different conditions, then move up to adding struts. Again that goes back to your first suggestion of Build first, Modify later (I really love that one. It's such sound advice). First make the doors work right as is, then add an electric door switch while leaving the manuals in place as an override. When that's working properly, add struts. I'm thinking a switch that's set up kind like the interior light switch. The electric door latch pops the door which closes contacts on the switch which activates the actuators. That way I only have the two actuators to synchronize. Wouldn't connecting the two actuators to the same power wire default them to being synced?
Another idea I had is to eventually replace the VW engine with a Porsche engine. As I recall, a 914 will bolt onto the VW trans, but does anyone know if any of the Porsche's V6 will or do they need a converter plate?
Thank you everyone for all your help
George
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Post by jspbtown on Jan 3, 2015 19:48:12 GMT -5
Porsche V6? I have one in my Cayenne and no way it will fit.
If you want to go bigger non-vw then go corvair. Or if you want to really go crazy go Suburu. The corvair is pretty straight forward. The Suburu is much more complex.
I think once you start looking at actuators you come to see that its a tall task for the doors. All the actuators I have seen are screw type actuators. You can't just "release" them internally. For my hatches I would reach under and access a pivot pin.
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vwguy
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Post by vwguy on Jan 5, 2015 1:42:45 GMT -5
I thought a Corvair engine would be hard to come by and expensive when you do find them. I would not mind one though. It may be ignorance talking since my info is so old but I thought if not a Porsche then a VW 1800 suitcase would be cheaper to stroke and bore and generally sup up. I don't really wanna go crazy, just have it perform a little closer to how it looks then what a stock 1600db would give.
Lenco makes some really nice linear actuators that are very slim, but all that miniaturization has a very high price. Think I'll put that kettle on the back burner.
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Post by jspbtown on Jan 5, 2015 10:47:01 GMT -5
The problem with the Porsche or the VW Type 4 motor is that they are very expensive to build. A basic 914 motor built by Jake Raby goes for $15k. Of course that is the highest level of perfection in the 914 motor world (but really the cost to enter the Raby world)
A nice 1914cc Type 1 motor would likely be the best balance between cost effective, power, reliability, and fit.
Just for a comparison. A 1914 longblock from Mofoco is about $2549. A 2000cc Type 4 longblock is $2999. That's $450 more for just a few ccs. And then remember...the exhaust is a lot more for a type 4.
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vwguy
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Posts: 9
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Post by vwguy on Jan 7, 2015 14:28:16 GMT -5
Does anyone know of any fellow enthusiast in the Tacoma area? I need a few donor parts that are missing from mine.
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By the way if someone wants to take these off my hands, I will sell the whole lot for $10.00 each..I think there are 90 of them...They are new old stock from Viracon...and no I don't have any windshields...I sold all I had last year and it looks like I might have sold them too cheap....Sorry...