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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 10, 2009 13:19:25 GMT -5
Hi, Group, Two very important items for GT and GTII owners: 1: Ray Tierney is delivering as promised. 2: Two new products are being offered. They are moon roof panels for the GTII, and "Half-Gulls" for the GT. Regarding delivery -- I ordered a GT Sundowner rear window about two weeks ago, just after Ray told me that he was gearing up for production. My new Sundowner arrived this morning as promised, 100 percent safe and sound. Delivery is not a myth: it's a fact. Regarding new items: the new moon roof panels for the GTII are direct replacements for the originals, and Ray is in the final stages of production for these parts now. The new Half-Gulls are the perfect item for the club's adventurous GT owners. A Half-Gull is the upper portion of the driver or passenger door. It runs from the edge along the center of the T-top, completely around the radius in the door to a point approximately 8 inches below the centerline of the radius. Picture cutting off the flat, side portion of a standard door about 6 inches below the bend: that's a Half-Gull. Experimenters will love the Half-Gull. 1. Make your own lower sections from Plexiglas stock available locally, and develop your own hinge system, tape system or lock system to join the upper and lower sections. 2. Drive with only the Half-Gulls mounted to get all the fresh air you need without air conditioning. 3. Store the upper and lower sections in the rear of the car (hinged or separated) or on the passenger seat without removing the rear window or taking up too much space. 4. Make the GT doors easier to handle and store. 5. Combine tinted Half-Gulls and clear lower sections for a different look and improved sun shielding over the one-piece, all-clear parts. ...and a million other ideas that each of you will (of course) develop. Please see my previous "Sunray Has Plexiglas" post for background information, contact information and pricing. The new Half-Gulls are a great deal at only $100 each. bradleygt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=176Warmest regards, |
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Post by mrbigh on Nov 10, 2009 14:18:44 GMT -5
Jeff, all this information is great but, how do we get in contact with this fabricator for pricing and ordering information?
I guess you have his contact information, could you please post it for everybody benefits?
Thank you
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Post by brianboggs on Nov 10, 2009 14:22:09 GMT -5
Please see my previous "Sunray Has Plexiglas" post for background information, contact information and pricing. The new Half-Gulls are a great deal at only $100 each. Warmest regards, I think this statement has what you request. He has another thread with the info.  |
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Post by brianboggs on Nov 10, 2009 14:23:04 GMT -5
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 10, 2009 17:42:59 GMT -5
Thanks, Brian,
I pasted your link into my message, just in case anyone else missed it.
That "lengthy and friendly" comment is no joke. Ray and I spoke for almost two hours today!
Warmest regards...
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Post by mrbigh on Nov 10, 2009 18:07:52 GMT -5
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Post by smyrnaguy on Nov 10, 2009 18:16:33 GMT -5
I got my new Sundowner and gullwings today. New hinges too. All arrived in perfect shape. A bit of advice...don't call Ray if you only have a few minutes to talk. Set aside an hour or more. I do not mean anything disparaging at all. Talking with Ray is always interesting and entertaining. Mention you have heard he built a bicycle that is pushed by an electric trailer. He's a super nice guy
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jdanko18
New Member
75 Bradley GT
Posts: 20 
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Post by jdanko18 on Nov 11, 2009 17:31:29 GMT -5
I am curious to see one of these "half gulls" Can anyone post images or can they get them from Sunray? I would like to see a few closeups of a tinted half gull or what it looks like mounted.
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 11, 2009 18:44:03 GMT -5
No one has images because these parts have never been available before now.
Like I wrote, just picture standard gull wing with the side portion cut off approximately 6 inches below the bend. Doesn't take much imagination. It's just a gull without the lower section.
You can hinge the end to the T-top like the standard gull, but since the lower portion with the clips is not present, you'll have to invent some means of keeping the curved side against the top when you drive. Ray suggested hook & loop (Velcro-type) material.
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jdanko18
New Member
75 Bradley GT
Posts: 20
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Post by jdanko18 on Nov 11, 2009 19:38:33 GMT -5
I can picture it... but I'd still like to see how it looks. And I am a little surprises how reasonable they are compared to the full door. With the doors, how much cutting is necessary to fit them. I am assuming these doors that sunray is making are like the originals in that they need to be "cut to fit" to your particular car, but is the cutting pretty even all around the edge or mostly on the bottom edge... I am trying to see if these half gulls would be easier as I like the idea and already have a sort of home made t-top that folds up, but I would like that curve over with the extra glass. Also, what technique do you use the cut the plexi. I am guessing its a lot of careful measuring but what tools do the best job for a clean edge? Thanks again JD
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Post by brianboggs on Nov 12, 2009 7:48:31 GMT -5
It's a lot more reasonable due to being able to get more pcs per sheet of Plexi. I was in the process a couple of years ago of making some and tried and tried to get more than two doors per 8x4 sheet. They just dont fit. So there is considerable waste. Now the half gulls are made probably from the waste area that would have been trashed anyway. So really it was a smart move on his part to come up with it. I'm sure there will be an inch all the way around that will need trimmed. Just spend the money get some,take pictures and let us know how it worked out for you.
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Post by smyrnaguy on Nov 12, 2009 8:08:28 GMT -5
According to Ray the half gulls are indeed made from scrap.
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 12, 2009 12:46:21 GMT -5
Hi, JD,
Brian and Smyrnaguy hit it perfectly: the cost is lower because the Half-Gulls can be made from the scraps of other projects. The tough part is the bend, and the Half-Gulls have the bend already done for you. I'm sure Ray could charge more, but he's doing it right and passing the savings on to his customers.
As for what to do with them, that's your call. When I said "experimenters," that's what I meant. Every owner will have/want to come up with his or her own way of mating the Half-Gulls to whatever he or she chooses to use on the lower end.
Half-Gulls, just like the full gulls, will require trimming all around every edge to fit each car. The only exception would be the lower edge of the Half-Gull, which is a clean, straight cut from front to rear. If the cut is in a good place for a particular owner, no cutting or trimming would be required along that edge.
Cutting and trimming Plexiglas is time-consuming, and you must be VERY careful. You POSITIVELY must trim the bottom edge first, or you'll end up with a gull that is too narrow to fit the front and and rear T-top pillars. You'll understand what I mean if you picture a triangle with one point aiming straight up. Now think of your triangle being held over an imaginary triangular opening of the same size, then pull the triangle downward. The two sides are now narrower than the opening, which is exactly what will happen if you trim the top and sides before trimming the bottom. -- and scratch one brand-new $250 gull wing!
I use a handheld jigsaw with a fine-tooth, metal-cutting blade to rough cut approximately 3/4-inch from the edge. Trimming is done in several 1/4-inch steps -- fitting the gull, then marking and cutting each 1/4-inch increment as I go.
Be aware that heat from the blade will cause the cut to close behind the blade as you move the tool forward, so be prepared to back up and re-cut all in two- or three-inch intervals all along the way. Avoid using too much forward pressure on the jigsaw, since that can cause internal chipping in the material. Work deliberately, slowly and -- ALWAYS -- carefully.
I take down and trim the edges to their final fit with a handheld belt sander, and finish the edges with hand sanding from 100-grit paper down to 320 wet-or-dry, all used on a no-give, aluminum sanding block. I also sand a slight radius into both sides of the finished edge to make the Plexiglas more comfortable to grasp and to prevent chipping.
I have tried the torch trick to put a gloss on the edges, but that has never worked well for me. I should probably try again with a few scraps, since the heating of the edge is supposed to prevent cracks from developing from the tiny imperfections in a sanded edge.
Plan on at least one full day to fit and cut two gulls, and most likely two or three days if you've never done it.
Good luck with the car.
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jdanko18
New Member
75 Bradley GT
Posts: 20
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Post by jdanko18 on Nov 12, 2009 19:38:22 GMT -5
Wow That does sound like a fun project... Good thing I have no winter hobbies! Well I really like the idea of the half gull and I think I will pick up a pair and just take my time. I have an email into Ray asking his best deal on a set of half gulls and a full rear window shipped. I may be getting rid of my long window that I have now if I pick up a new one... It just wouldn't look right to have new up front and an aged window in the rear. Thank for all the advice. JD
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 15, 2009 22:16:48 GMT -5
Hi, JD,
Anything with a Bradley is all about personal preference, but I can give you plenty of solid reasons for losing the fastback rear window just as fast as you can. Aside from looking totally greaser (to me, of course), here is my condensed version:
1. anything that finds its way under the rear of the fastback window will be stuck there forever
2. can't store anything in the rear of the car that cannot pass between the seats -- or over the seats if you chop the headrests
3. impossible to clean the inside of the lower section of the fastback window -- or the rear deck -- because you can't reach either without a specifically designed tool
4. more difficult to relocate the gas tank filler to the rear deck (the only proven mod for the GT fueling problem) if you have to go through the fastback window
5. if you are a traveler, compare the practical advantages of carrying suitcases or other baggage (guitars, amps?) on a luggage rack and the rear jump seat (actually a package shelf) against the impracticality of the fastback, which negates the shelf and any possibility of installing an optional rack
6. yes, you can hinge the fastback and even make it removable, but it's heavier than the convertible window and harder to store -- and still really ugly. Of course, guys who still wear that Billy Ray Cyrus mullet might think it's pretty slick. Rock on, Joe Dirt!
Do the Sundowner, dude. Once you have it, you'll never regret it -- but don't forget to add one extra clip along the top edge at the center of the window to prevent suction from bowing the window, popping the side clips and pulling the short window off the car.
Warmest...
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jdanko18
New Member
75 Bradley GT
Posts: 20
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Post by jdanko18 on Nov 15, 2009 23:06:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestion... but funny thing is I really like the long window... I don't plan on needing the storage (kinda killed that space with the dual 12"mtx subs and 4300 watt amp- can you say overkill). For as much as I will drive it I shouldn't need to clean under it too much, and I have had it off a few times... being 6'5" I have the wingspan to handle it on and off easily. My gas filler is on the top almost touching the window on the driver side... I don't know of this fueling problem but maybe you could fill me in?  And I am from backwoods PA.... I don't have a mullet but thats not to say that I don't enjoy observing and commenting on them as I see them in their natural habitat. (It's too bad the mulletsgalore.com website was taken down... it was hilarious to see how they named and categorized each style) But anyway, I guess it just goes to say to each his own with these cars. Thanks for the suggestions but I think I am still going to rock the fastback. |
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Post by skip20 on Nov 16, 2009 12:56:31 GMT -5
You could always hinge the fastback top using rubber seals aroung the edge of the window.
This way you can open it to clean ot take it off on the hot summer days.
Skip20
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 16, 2009 14:58:09 GMT -5
Hi, Skip & JD,
Not positive, but I think that Gary Hammond is the GT owner with the hinged fastback window. If so, he's very knowledgeable and is always willing to share his creations. Best thing is that if a creation comes from Gary, it works, and you can trust it.
Hinging the window is the only intelligent and practical way I've seen for using the fastback, but I'm curious about what is used to hold the tail down. I wouldn't trust weight alone, especially at speed.
Hey, JD... Where are you in PA: isn't the whole state backwoods? I'm in Lancaster (I call it lackluster), and that's about as backwoods as I can take it.
The problem I have with being born and raised on Manhattan's East Side is that it makes every town -- including Chicago, Philadelphia and LA -- feel like a backwoods town by comparison. The worst part is that I could never afford to go back to the city, even if I wanted to -- and I positively don't. I can't even imagine what it would cost to maintain two kit cars, two normal vehicles, eight race karts, two trailers and more than 50 RC airplanes in New York.
Lackluster suits me just fine.
Warmest...
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jdanko18
New Member
75 Bradley GT
Posts: 20
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Post by jdanko18 on Nov 16, 2009 19:32:06 GMT -5
I am originally from a little town called Tunkhannock (which nobody can ever pronounce correctly) about an hour north of Wilkes-Barre / Scranton area. Now I am a few miles further north in Meshoppen. City life would never be for me. There's nothing like the country. If I can't shoot a gun at midnight without having the cops called or pee of my own front porch, then I don't want to live there!
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Post by Gary Hammond on Nov 16, 2009 20:42:26 GMT -5
Hi Jeff,  Hi, Skip & JD, Not positive, but I think that Gary Hammond is the GT owner with the hinged fastback window. I hinged my rear window, but it's the sundowner not the fastback. And I am having problems with multiple small cracks around the edges, apparently because of the way I trimmed it. It's also cracking at the screw holes for the hold-down clips. I used flat-head countersunk screws. Should have used pan-head screws with rubber washers, and should have drilled the screw holes a little over-sized as well. I think the expansion and contraction due to heat and moisture caused this problem.  It is nice, however, for gaining access to the rear shelf area. And there's also no danger of it catching the wind and getting ripped off!  Gary Hammond,  |
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 16, 2009 20:58:56 GMT -5
HI, JD,
Used to play a joint up in Wilkes-Barre a time or two, but that was back in the '70's and I can't remember the name. People were nice enough, but definitely not my kind of town.
Tap to Gary (previous post) about his hinging system. Maybe it will work for the fastback, and he might have an idea of how to secure the rear. Securing the Sundowner (short window) is different that the fastback because you don't have to screw anything down on the deck.
If you come up with something tried and true -- like after it's been on your car for awhile -- let the board know. More than just a few people like the fastback, and making it removable would be helpful to them.
Warmest...
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 16, 2009 21:06:01 GMT -5
Hi, Gary,
Always nice to hear from you, my friend. How are the pedal-Ponies coming along?
I tried most everything to eliminate the stress cracking over the years, and the best, although not a positive cure, is as you suggest: drill the holes slightly larger than the screws, then use a plastic-compatible, rubber sealer in the hole to prevent leaks.
If you have a few Plexiglas scraps around, try the propane torch thing on the edges. See if you can get them smooth enough to gloss the edge without letting the material get hot enough to bubble. I couldn't get it right, although I only tried once or twice before baling.
Too much pressure on your spring clips (or hold-down straps if you use my system) will eventually cause hairline cracking around the fittings. Not enough pressure causes rattles and air leaks. A happy balance is almost impossible to achieve.
I try to tell people to stock up on gulls and rears when they are available, but unless an owner drives his or her car regularly, they could never understand just how perishable these Plexiglas parts really are.
Be well, Gary.
Warmest regards,
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Post by Gary Hammond on Nov 16, 2009 21:48:14 GMT -5
Hi Jeff, If you have a few Plexiglas scraps around, try the propane torch thing on the edges. See if you can get them smooth enough to gloss the edge without letting the material get hot enough to bubble. I couldn't get it right, although I only tried once or twice before baling. I used a torch originally on the rear window. Got some melting and some bubbles as well.  Didn't work for me. I think that contributed to the edge cracking along with sawing too aggressively. Had to do a lot of sanding to finish it up, but the heat and sawing caused it to eventually crack around the edges. I have stop drilled the stress cracks and filled the holes with clear silicone. Then I made metal plates the same size as the base of the hold down clips to fit on the outside of the window and sandwich the Plexiglas in between. Sealed that with silicone as well. Seems to have stopped any further stress cracking. Gary Hammond, |
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Post by Jeff Troy on Nov 17, 2009 15:07:20 GMT -5
Hi, Gary,
The worst problem with the gulls is warping. After awhile -- and it doesn't take long -- the forward corner of the gulls warp outward ahead of the clip and the rear corners warp outward behind the clip. Even the center will eventually begin to pull away from the sill between the clips.
Same deal happens on the upper section, where the warping occurs ahead of and behind the two hinges. Constant pressure on the forward corner from the door prop when the window is raised compounds the problem in that area.
Each of these seemingly minor issues becomes very pronounced if you drive your car in winter. Cold air enters the car where the gull warps away from the rubber seal, and the result is too much for the heating system to overcome -- and heat in a Bradley is no bargain to begin with.
I've started to design an attractive-as-possible set of polished stainless runners for the upper and lower edges of the gulls. Each lower section would run from corner to corner, and raise to include the window clips. Each upper section would run from leading edge to trailing edge, and extend in the forward corner to include the door prop mount.
Mounted outside of the gulls, these trim plates -- once I find the correct gauge -- will most likely prevent any areas of the Plexiglas from warping outward, and I doubt that a sandwich would be necessary.
I have a few rough drawings somewhere, but I should really take the time to prepare a couple of templates and send them to my fabricator buddy so he can make the parts. That will probably happen with restoration number 6.
Body-off restoration 6 is soon to come, probably the day after I have the MG-TD on the road.
My original engine is probably a little tired after 600,000-plus miles, although it's still running strong. Number 6 will have a new 1776 engine (thanks for the advice and guidance Gary H. & Don M.), glassing the T-top to the body, new gulls and Sundowner, swap the polished aluminum instrument panel for stainless, and an overall cleanup of every part on the chassis, interior and body. I'll also probably lose the Jet-Hot on the wheels, hinges and bumpers, and have everything triple-chromed for more "pop."
Warmest...
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And I am from backwoods PA.... I don't have a mullet but thats not to say that I don't enjoy observing and commenting on them as I see them in their natural habitat. (It's too bad the mulletsgalore.com website was taken down... it was hilarious to see how they named and categorized each style) But anyway, I guess it just goes to say to each his own with these cars. Thanks for the suggestions but I think I am still going to rock the fastback.
Didn't work for me. I think that contributed to the edge cracking along with sawing too aggressively. Had to do a lot of sanding to finish it up, but the heat and sawing caused it to eventually crack around the edges.