Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 2, 2013 12:50:43 GMT -5
Hi all,
Well today was day 3000 in the ongoing saga of why my car runs perfect and then without warning dies and will not restart till you let it sit for 45 mins and then it starts and runs perfect again. I am at the end of my rope with this problem. So unless someone on here has some idea of what is wrong, I am replacing the Webber progressive 2bbl with dual carbs (which I would like to hear everyone's recommendations for) junking the .009 dist. In favor of a SVA model (unless you all have a better option) and replacing the fuel pump (anyone have a brand they like more then others?) and hopefully this will fix the issue. This is going on a 1600 DP. I am at a loss as to why this is happening. It is the same exact setup I was using on the last motor for 28K miles without issue (until the fan keyway broke and my alt light was burned out and I seized the motor. I have changed the coil three times rebuilt the carb changed the fuel filter. I am at a loss.
Thanks
Eric
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 2, 2013 13:01:14 GMT -5
Also if anyone has any of these part they want to sell let me know.
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Post by jspbtown on Aug 2, 2013 13:17:27 GMT -5
When it dies does it die from lack of spark or lack of fuel?
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 2, 2013 18:55:50 GMT -5
It seems to have spark when it dies. If i pull a plug wire off and short it against the head with a nail there is spark. It shuts off like someone just turned the key off.
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Post by jspbtown on Aug 2, 2013 19:48:45 GMT -5
How about the carb? Can you see fuel squirting down the throat after it cuts out?
How about your valves? Set too tight?
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
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Post by Eric A on Aug 2, 2013 20:29:42 GMT -5
Valves were perfect when checked today. There is no way to see down the carb while it is in the car. It sits to high in the car. I even had to modify the body to make it fit with an air cleaner. But it did the same thing before and after the rebuild.
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 2, 2013 20:31:49 GMT -5
The only thing I did find is the fuel line was run on top of the intake manifold and tight against the fan shroud. I am not sure if that would get it hot enough to vapor lock. I did relocate it today away from everything.
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Post by smyrnaguy on Aug 2, 2013 20:41:05 GMT -5
Check the points. Look for burns and corrosion. Could be a bad condensor breaking down when hot. I swear at 009 dizzys. I had one twist in two last week. A lot of people swear by them. I replaced my last one with a svda and now my car will idle with the ac on. That's new.
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 2, 2013 21:10:29 GMT -5
I thought of the condenser too. I replaced it just to be safe along with brand new points. I don't know who talked me into the 009 many years ago but they are off my friends list. Lol. Aside from the issues it has, the lag it has when you step on the gas drives me nuts!
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Post by Wyn on Aug 2, 2013 21:43:11 GMT -5
It does sounds like it could be vapor lock. It does not take much if the fuel gets to close to a hot spot. What about the carb heat line from the manifold there are about the size of the fuel lines.
Wyn
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
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Post by Eric A on Aug 3, 2013 6:57:32 GMT -5
My exhaust eliminates the carb heat line. My intake also did not have a carb heater line. I do not have heater boxes either as they are heavy bulky in the way and I live in FL so the need does not come up often. :-) I did see something on YouTube last night that I have never heard of. It said that the plastic piece under the fuel pump can swell over time causing the fuel pump rod to bind in the up position causing the fuel pump to just stop dead until it cools and the rid frees up again. I am going to take the pump out on Monday and check it. They claim if you pick that piece up it should drop in under its own weight. If you have to push it in it is bad.
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Post by smyrnaguy on Aug 5, 2013 6:43:18 GMT -5
horen2tas apparently your clutch isn't adjusted correctly and doesn't fully disengage. Eric A the lack of carb heat is more than likely your problem. The air going into the carb is cool causing the vaporized fuel to condensate in the manifold. The longer the engine runs the more raw gas is dumped into it and the poorer it runs until it runs no more. When the carb and the manifold reach the same temp again the engine will run again. If you change over to dual carbs the problem will go away. The shorter straighter manifolds won't let it happen.
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 5, 2013 12:02:19 GMT -5
But the question being, this same carb setup on the previous motor (also without the heater line) that ran for 28K miles and never had this problem even when the fan quit turning and the motor was over heating. What would cause it to suddenly start doing it with this motor?
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Post by smyrnaguy on Aug 5, 2013 13:53:25 GMT -5
Sheer luck. You might also have a load of crud in your tank. Next time it happens immediately check to see if fuel is getting to the carb. I had an old Volvo that would do the same thing. Turns out it had fine sand in the tank. It would run great for a while until the suction gathered the sand around the fuel sock, then it would die. After a few minutes off the sand would fall away and it would run for a few more. The fix was a good cleaning. Keep in mind that methanol will wash years of crud out of your fuel system components and into the carb.
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 5, 2013 14:27:50 GMT -5
That is a very good point. I will check that. Thanks!
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Post by gitrdun on Aug 5, 2013 19:26:03 GMT -5
I always keep a can of starting fluid around, if there is any doubt whether its fuel or spark not allowing an engine to start just give it a shot of starting fluid then try and start it. If it hits at all then you know you have spark and the problem is almost certainly fuel related.
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 6, 2013 7:40:31 GMT -5
After some investigation I took the pump off and the plastic piece under it was broken and by looking at the wear on the top broken piece and the drive rod it has been for quite a while. The bottom piece is jammed in the motor. I may have to separate the case to get it out. Even if that is not the main problem it is definitely a big problem. The pump shoots gas about six feet when pumped by hand so I am guessing it is still good.
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Post by jspbtown on Aug 6, 2013 8:16:21 GMT -5
Run a tap into the remaining piece and thread a bolt into it to pull it out. No need to split the case.
Given what you said about the pump (although I don't really understand "when pumped by hand") you might have too much fuel pressure and you are flooding out the engine.
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 6, 2013 10:23:55 GMT -5
I just pushed on the bottom of the pump with the rod once out of the car to see if it was really pumping fuel. I ordered a rebuild kit just in case the regulator is bad. I am going to try and tap it. I am just not sure if you can tap the Bakelite or if it will just crumble.
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Post by jspbtown on Aug 6, 2013 10:42:58 GMT -5
What kind of regulator do you have? And why do you have one?
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
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Post by Eric A on Aug 6, 2013 18:45:51 GMT -5
It is built into the carb. It is a weird fuel pump. I have only seen a few of this type. I really don't know what the difference is. If there even is one.
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 6, 2013 18:47:55 GMT -5
Here it is Attachments:
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Post by jspbtown on Aug 6, 2013 18:58:43 GMT -5
I have never seen one before either. Might be worth the $20 to put a stock(er) one on. You have a type 1 engine?
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 6, 2013 19:18:47 GMT -5
Yes it is a 1600ish type 1
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Post by jspbtown on Aug 6, 2013 20:38:10 GMT -5
If you do make sure you get the right one for the pushrod that you have,
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Post by horen2tas on Aug 6, 2013 20:49:20 GMT -5
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Eric A
Full Member
It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 6, 2013 20:49:43 GMT -5
When I was at mid America motorworks I did not see where they listed which it was for. That was a concern that I have the wrong pump for the rod.
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Post by horen2tas on Aug 6, 2013 21:00:38 GMT -5
Like I said I'm done with the Chinese crap, two in less than 1000 miles is more than I care to eat. Bought the last one in Pompano Beach now I'm upstate NY. At least I'll have the satisfaction of tossing it into the bogg!
BTW the alternator is the more crunched down model so it will clearance the wider diameter of the alternator. It uses the shorter rod (4")
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Eric A
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It's an obsession not an investment!
Posts: 223
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Post by Eric A on Aug 9, 2013 11:10:58 GMT -5
So I have now tried grabbing the piece with a hook and I have tried ez-outs and now I have tapped it and inserted a screw and I can lift the whole back of the car with it. I don't know if this is the problem or not but I know for sure that if that piece got hot and swelled the only direction it had to go was to bind up the drive rod. I guess the engine is getting torn down. Crap!
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Post by horen2tas on Aug 10, 2013 21:33:15 GMT -5
Before I'd do the tear-down I'd try some more things like putting some liquid wrench on it a couple of times and letting it sit, then maybe some well directed heat around the edges from a pencil torch. Maybe tapping on it with a punch or suitable chisel anythings better than a tear down unless you really want to start with a fresh engine.
also I just thought of another possibility, if you have access to a slide hammer they are really good at loosening up stuff and you should be able to lock onto the easy out or the tapped in screw.
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