zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Apr 25, 2013 17:25:39 GMT -5
So I recently blew an oil seal in my engine, 68 VW beetle 1500cc. From where the oil is coming from, I believe it was a seal between the crank case and oil cooler. I have already ordered a German made seal kit from www.airheadparts.com and a click type torque wrench. The reason I bought the torque wrench is because my plan is to replace most if not all seals while I have the engine out, this includes the push rod tube seals which requires pulling the heads off. My question is, if really the only seal that blew was on the oil cooler, should I only replace that one and not worry about the push rod tube seals? I am not worried about time, I can readjust my valves in the end, and I would like to gain the experience. I am just worried about something going wrong (head to cylinder or cylinder to crank case doesn't seat properly) and losing the compression in my engine.
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Post by whcgt on Apr 25, 2013 17:34:40 GMT -5
You dont have to pull the heads off...to replace pushrod tubes. Simply get the S.C.A.T. spring loaded pushrod tubes, also get the pushrods from S.C.A.T.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Apr 25, 2013 17:39:09 GMT -5
Well it has the original push rod tubes in it, which are not spring loaded from my understanding and I would rather keep the original tubes.
I need to pull the heads off to pull off the original push rod tubes intact, right? I am not sure about this stuff, just know what I know from some youtube videos and forum posts.
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Post by whcgt on Apr 25, 2013 17:45:27 GMT -5
Heck no..you dont want those accordian original pushrod tubes. Just use the S.C.A.T. tubes & rods. I had zero problems with them on my 1500cc engine, that I had in my old Invader GT. Also, you better not use synthetic oil in your engine. You better use GTX & turn the engine over by hand a few times before trying to start it.
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Post by whcgt on Apr 25, 2013 17:52:44 GMT -5
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Apr 25, 2013 17:57:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, but I still want to know if the heads needs to be pulled off the engine to get the original tubes out without cutting them in half?
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Post by whcgt on Apr 25, 2013 18:03:54 GMT -5
Yeah,I think, If I remember correctly. Those old original aluminum tubes are pretty fragile & are easily damaged. So, yeah, go ahead & remove the heads then. I think those old accordian tubes, are best served in your aluminum can collection for recycling.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Apr 25, 2013 18:07:16 GMT -5
heh, you're probably right, but I don't exactly have the money to buy a set of the SCAT tubes right now, especially when I have a set of working tubes already.
So is there anything I could do wrong to lose the compression in my engine if I removed the heads? I believe the seal kit I bought has new seals for the heads.
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Apr 25, 2013 18:11:41 GMT -5
To remove the original tubes without damaging them the heads must come off. But why bother. The old tubes will have to be re stretched prior to reassembly and they are probably brittle and will crack in the accordian section. This means new tubes and seals are in order. The easiest and fastest way is with the spring loaded tubes. Pull the valve covers and rocker shafts, pull the pushrods making note of location and direction. pry the old tubes and seaals out with a screwdriver. Clean the sealing surfaces with a small ball brush on a drill. The spring loaded tubes do not come with inst but you want the spring end against the head so the oil does not try to come out at the center seal as it travels back to the case. Note these are backwards.
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Post by whcgt on Apr 25, 2013 18:12:35 GMT -5
You can do a whole lot wrong. Better use a Chilton book & torque those heads back on...in the correct sequence & torque specs. You do it wrong & you can warp the magnesium heads & then you got problems.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Apr 25, 2013 18:20:45 GMT -5
OK, now I understand why I don't want the original tubes, sorry whcgt. I guess I will look into some spring loaded tubes then. I thought the original tubes were a fixed length and was skeptical of the spring loaded tubes namely because of the chance of leaking in the center.
thanks guys.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Apr 25, 2013 18:22:04 GMT -5
yeah..... I think im going to avoid it now. Although I do have a Hayes manual, but I will leave this project for another day.
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Post by jspbtown on Apr 25, 2013 18:50:03 GMT -5
Are your pushrod tube seals leaking? If not I wouldn't mess with them. If you really want to play then installing new ones is real easy. Just take your time. It will give you the chance to clean your heads up and take a peak inside. Torque them to spec. make sure you keep your pushrods in order (in the same holes they came out).
Personally I wouldn't use the spring loaded ones but thats just me. Some good seals, a little sealant around them, and you are good to go for many more miles than you will keep the Bradley for. If you want you can go stainless as well.
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Post by cocacoladodge on Apr 26, 2013 10:00:00 GMT -5
Thank you for bringing this up and the reasons for switching tube types. Back in December I bought a "boat anchor" 1500 single-port just to tear into and get an idea of what I'm doing when I go to rebuild the 1500 in my silver '76 and the dual-port 1600 in the '74. It was only $20 but I did have a 6 hr round trip roadtrip getting it... With gas prices, its an expensive teaching tool, but far cheaper than screwing up my good ones. I see the spring tubes all over, but never looked into them because I didn't understand why... Now that I do, I may use them when I do need to change them, but are there any brands to avoid / and which are proven to be good?
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Post by jspbtown on Apr 26, 2013 11:11:56 GMT -5
Many opinions available on this. The cheap black plastic ones suck in my opinion.
The more expensive aluminum ones are better. They are just a chep fix though.
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Apr 26, 2013 13:06:54 GMT -5
I have used the blue ones on a few customers cars and have had no issues. 4 years and still no leaks. Remember the photo I posted is showing the wrong way to install them.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Apr 26, 2013 15:33:18 GMT -5
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Apr 26, 2013 17:26:26 GMT -5
i recommend either stock or spring loaded. The adj aluminum look nice but keep in mind that the VW engine grows [gets wider] when hot. Some up to a 1/4 inch. The stock with the accordians are capable of expanding as are the spring loaded. Not so sure if the expansion rate of the aluminum tubes will match the rate of the engine to keep them sealed.
VW addressed this expansion when they changed to the thinner 8mm head bolts because they expand more evenly with the engine as it heats, so the "hot" head torque doesn't get so high it pulls the bolts out of the case. The "hot" head torque is about 70 ft-lbs -- a lot more than the 18 ft-lbs cold torque! The more power you are creating and the hotter it gets will result in higher expansion amounts.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on May 7, 2013 16:58:43 GMT -5
So I ended up going with these pushrod tubes, www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-4109 , I figured my financial situation isn't going to get much better before I plan on fixing my engine so I might as well order them. I decided to go with these because 1) EMPI is usually the way to go, 2) the springs look more sturdy and stiffer than the SCAT tubes 3) The tubes look as if they are machined better, too. I could be wrong though, if anyone has some EMPI pushrod tube nightmares, let me know.
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Post by Dan MacMillan on May 8, 2013 2:10:06 GMT -5
What type of seal do they use where the tubes slide todether?
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on May 8, 2013 2:42:09 GMT -5
looks like just two black O-rings
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Post by Dan MacMillan on May 8, 2013 20:37:56 GMT -5
Now I see. Make sure the spring end goes against the head.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on May 9, 2013 16:27:16 GMT -5
YUP, I will. Thanks for that advice btw, after you pointed it out it seems pretty obvious, but it's one of those little details I probably would have overlooked mid installation.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Jun 13, 2013 22:22:50 GMT -5
Hey everyone, so I pulled out the engine, replaced the oil cooler seals (source of main leak), put in the pushrod tubes with spring side against heads.... there is still a significant leak (much less though) coming from the same area. I am pretty sure that the source would have to be the oil cooler itself. Assuming it is the stock dog house style oil cooler leaking, I figured I would just buy an external oil cooler considering the dog house style cooler costs around 100 bucks and I can have more convenient placement making future leaks easier to fix (NOT pulling out the engine). My question is, what would a good oil cooler be? Are the EMPI coolers any good, or should I just get the EMPI oil cooler adapter and get a different oil cooler kit? links provided. www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-5321www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-5328I have already read through, bradleygt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1655thanks, Jonathan
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Post by jspbtown on Jun 14, 2013 8:38:18 GMT -5
I have use kits like those in the past. I like the fact that you can add a filter. They also add some oil capacity to the engine.
That being said...finding a place that has sufficient air flow and is still protected from road debris can be a challenge. I would concentrate on that aspect before you decide anything.
A replacement doghouse cooler is by far the simpliest solution.
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zaucy
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Posts: 127
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Post by zaucy on Jun 16, 2013 0:22:47 GMT -5
Well if I end up using an external oil cooler kit, I was planning on getting an electric fan and temp switch and placing it all above the transaxle somewhere? idk, just toying with the idea right now. I also am a little confused with the stock cooler and correct seals right now. I have the old style cooler, which is different from the doghouse I was reading online that there are different seals for the two different coolers and two different blocks(?) I was reading there is an older style block and newer style block and if you are using an old cooler (like mine) you should use 8mm seals and a doghouse cooler uses 10mm seals, but if you are using the old cooler with a newer block you need to use some hybrid seals?? I am not sure if this is correct for one, or what it means, two. can someone help clarify this with pictures of different seals maybe? thanks
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Post by jspbtown on Jun 16, 2013 7:55:02 GMT -5
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