Type of paint?

I have used acrylic urethanes with good success.

What is your experience with paint? Are you looking for a BC/CC or a single stage. What primer will you use? How much body work have you done?

Painting a car is possible for anyone if they so desire. I have never sprayed lacquer. I have sprayed Kirker and you can spray it as a single stage or add a clear coat.

Does your car need any body work? IS it the original gel coat? You will need to shoot some primer before you lay any paint. I like Evercoat G2 for primer. You will need a larger tip on your gun to shoot this.

Let us know what your plans are. You can't just go buy paint and spray it over what you have. Well....I guess you can but it will look awful and it won't last long at all.

There are decent paint jobs that can be done at home. You do not have to go over the top. But you do need to properly prime & sand the car before paint.

wow, that little bit of advice you just got above is priceless.

I dabbled a little in body work on my car with intention to paint.... yeah...

very, very lucky to have guys here that are willing to help you.
best of luck..

bob

What about the water based paints? I know the shops like them, but like mercer, I would like to do it myself. Do you need any special guns or attachments to use it?

Thanks!
Jim

I was talking to my neighbor who has been an automotive bodyman/painter for 30 years. He does all of my airbrushing and paints cars for a living. He tells me that water based paints are actually more dangerous to the user and environment. The base coat is water based and as a result loves water. Unlike solvent based base coat where the overspray dries quickly, waterbased overspray reactivates in the presence of water/moisture. When it gets into our water supply it will cause many environmental and health problems as it can then release the other harmful components into the water, Solvent based dries in the air and can be filtered out if it gets into our drinking water supply. Many shops wash down the floor and the drains lead to our water treatment plants. Keep in mind that it is moist inside your lungs. The clearcoat used is the same as always. Full of nasty chemicals including isocyanates. AKA really nasty s.h.i.t. {I hate this auto censorship} So are they really safer to use. No as the precautions call for the same safety gear to be worn.

I tried viewing the msds info from auto paint companies dupont/ppg etc but they are like lepricauns, I know they are there but impossible to see.

As mentioned above there are low VOC products available that do not damage our drinking water as much.

Disposal of Used Cleaning Water and Paint Waste: Spray guns and other equipment in contact with waterborne basecoats must be cleaned with water between each color change. Used cleaning water must be disposed of as hazardous waste.

From a description of washing equipment used in shops.

The coagulant accelerator and filter system provide a safe and easy disposal method of all waterborne paint waste. The dual filter system thoroughly catches all waterborne paint, leaving clean water to re-use. The paint can dry and be disposed of properly. The filters are durable enough to endure 20 to 30 processes.

As you see the paint must be separated from the water at the shop level.

Although they like to tell us that waterborne is safer for the environment and us in general, solvent based paint dries by releasing the solvent to the atmosphere. The residue can be swept up and disposed of much easier. They say that VOC's are bad for the ozone layer. Apparently everything is bad for ozone, and you know what else, everything in the state of California will cause cancer. Glad I don't live there, I'd be dead by now. Proper safety gear is the way to go. I'd rather risk the ozone than drink the chemicals used in paint manufacturing.

There is enough crap in our water.

Painted my buggy with that paint and the results were good. The laquer is not very hardy though. My side pods I painted with rustoleum spray bombs and they are holding up better and look good as well.

Lacquer is great for the beginner, it can be applied with a water pistol, but it is labor intensive as it needs to be color sanded and buffed to achieve the professional look. It is also not very flexible and tends to crack. Acrylic enamel must have a hardener in it if you plan on color sanding but you cannot sand metallics as you will cut the metallic particles, only solid colors. Metallics are such that you get what you spray, There are certain techniques to eliminate tiger striping. Single stage non hardened is relatively safe but you are stuck with what you spray. Base clear is faster and easier to get the perfect job. The base is relatively safe and imperfections can be corrected as you paint. Runs, droops, orange peel, fish eyes etc, can be easily repaired as the base dries fast. Runs etc can be sanded out, contamination causing peel and eyes can be corrected then resprayed. Once all is done the catalysed {hardened} clear is applied over it. Clear can be sanded and polished to remove any flaws. This means that for BC/CC metallics they are sandable to correct problems. The hardener used in paints is the big heath issue.

Here is an MSDS for the hardener used in dupont paints.
pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/MSDS/US_en_GNRC_12-0_RFN.pdf


Product: Isocyanate Activators, Hardeners, and Additives
DOT Shipping Name: See DOT Addendum.
Hazardous Materials Information: See Section 10.
Copyright 2011 E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company. All rights reserved. Copies may be made only for those using DuPont products.
2. Composition/information on ingredients
INGREDIENTS CAS # VAPOR
PRESSURE
EXPOSURE LIMITS
1,2,4-trimethyl benzene 95-63-6 7.0@44.4 C A 25.0 ppm, O 25.0 ppm
1,6-hexamethylene diisocyanate 822-06-0 0.0@25.0 C A 5.0 ppb, O None
2,4,6- tri((dimethylamino)methyl) phenol 90-72-2 0.0@21.0 C A None, O None
2-ethylhexyl acetate 103-09-3 0.5 A None, O None
4,6-dimethyl-2-heptanone 19549-80-5 None A None, O None
4-chlorobenzotrifluoride 98-56-6 7.6@25.0 C D 20.0 ppm 8 & 12 hour TWA, A None, O None
Acetone 67-64-1 247.0@68.0 F A 750.0 ppm 15 min STEL, A 500.0 ppm, O 1000.0 ppm,
D 500.0 ppm 8 & 12 hour TWA
Aliphatic polyisocyanate resin 28182-81-2 None S 0.5 mg/m3, A None, O None
Aromatic hydrocarbon-A 64742-94-5 10.0 D 100.0 ppm, A None, O None
Aromatic hydrocarbon-B 64742-95-6 10.0@25.0 C D 50.0 ppm, A None, O None
Bis(1,2,2,6,6-pentamethyl-4-piperidinyl)
sebacate
41556-26-7 None A None, O None
Butyl acetate 123-86-4 10.0 A 200.0 ppm 15 min STEL, A 150.0 ppm, O 150.0 ppm
Cumene 98-82-8 3.7 A 50.0 ppm, O 50.0 ppm Skin
Diisobutyl ketone 108-83-8 1.8 A 25.0 ppm, O 50.0 ppm
Ethanol, 2-(2-butoxyethoxy)- 112-34-5 0.0 D 5.0 ppm, A None, O None
Ethyl 3-ethoxy propionate 763-69-9 2.3 A None, O None
Ethyl acetate 141-78-6 100.0 A 400.0 ppm, O 400.0 ppm
Ethylbenzene 100-41-4 7.0 A 20.0 ppm, O 100.0 ppm, D 25.0 ppm 8 & 12 hour TWA
Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether acetate 112-07-2 0.3 A 20.0 ppm, D 20.0 ppm 8 & 12 hour TWA , O None
Heptane 142-82-5 45.0@66.0 F A 500.0 ppm 15 min STEL, A 400.0 ppm, O 500.0 ppm
Isobutyl alcohol 78-83-1 16.0 A 50.0 ppm, O 100.0 ppm
Isophorone diisocyanate homopolymer 53880-05-0 None A None, O None
Isopropyl alcohol 67-63-0 48.0 A None, O None
Methyl acetate 79-20-9 171.3@68.0 F A 250.0 ppm 15 min STEL, A 200.0 ppm, O 200.0 ppm
Methyl amyl ketone 110-43-0 3.4 A 50.0 ppm, O 100.0 ppm
Methyl ethyl ketone 78-93-3 71.2 A 300.0 ppm 15 min STEL, A 200.0 ppm, O 200.0 ppm,
D 300.0 ppm 15 min TWA, D 200.0 ppm 8 & 12 hour TWA
Methyl isoamyl ketone 110-12-3 5.3 A None, O None
Methyl isobutyl ketone 108-10-1 15.1 A 75.0 ppm 15 min STEL Skin, A 20.0 ppm , O 100.0
ppm Skin
N,n‘-bis(3-trimethoxysilylpropyl)-1,2-
ethanediamine
68845-16-9 None A None, O None
N-beta-(aminoethyl)-gammaaminopropyltrimethoxysilane
1760-24-3 <1.0 A None, O None
N-pentyl propionate 624-54-4 1.5 A None, O None
Naphthalene 91-20-3 1.0@52.6 C A 15.0 ppm CEIL Skin, A 10.0 ppm Skin, O 10.0 ppm,
D 0.1 ppm 8 & 12 hour TWA
Propylene glycol methyl ether 107-98-2 11.2@77.0 F A 150.0 ppm 15 min STEL, A 100.0 ppm, O None
Salicylic acid 69-72-7 <0.0 O 15.0 mg/m3 Total Dust, O 5.0 mg/m3 Respirable Dust,
A None
Siloxanes and silane esters NotAvail <1.0 A None, O None
Substituted benzotriazole 25973-55-1 None A None, O None
Toluene 108-88-3 22.0 A 20.0 ppm , O 300.0 ppm CEIL, O 500.0 ppm 10 min
TWA, O 200.0 ppm, D 50.0 ppm 8 & 12 hour TWA Skin
Trixylenyl phosphate 25155-23-1 1.0 A None, O None
Vm&p naphtha 8032-32-4 17.9@68.0 F A 300.0 ppm, D 100.0 ppm, O None
Copyright 2011 E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company. All rights reserved. Copies may be made only for those using DuPont products.
MSDS 12
Isocyanate Activators, Hardeners,
and Additives DuPont Performance Coatings
Material Safety Data Sheet
January 1, 2013
Page: 2
INGREDIENTS CAS # VAPOR
PRESSURE
EXPOSURE LIMITS
Xylene 1330-20-7 8.0@25.0 C A 150.0 ppm 15 min STEL, A 100.0 ppm, O 100.0 ppm,
D 150.0 ppm 15 min STEL, D 100.0 ppm 8 & 12 hour
TWA
*A=ACGIH, O=OSHA, D=DuPont, S=Suppliers. Limits are 8 hour TWA unless otherwise specified. Vapor pressure @ 20 C unless otherwise noted.
3. Hazards identification
Potential Health Effects:
Inhalation:
May cause nose and throat irritation. May cause nervous system depression, characterized by the following progressive steps: headache, dizziness, nausea, staggering
gait, confusion, unconsciousness. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If this
product contains or is mixed with an isocyanate activator/hardener, the following health effects may apply: Exposure to isocyanates may cause respiratory sensitization.
This effect may be permanent. Symptoms include an asthma-like reaction with shortness of breath, wheezing, cough or permanent lung sensitization. This effect may be
delayed for several hours after exposure. Repeated overexposure to isocyanates may cause a decrease in lung function, which may be permanent. Individuals with lung
or breathing problems or prior reactions to isocyanates must not be exposed to vapors or spray mist of this product.
Ingestion:
May result in gastrointestinal distress.
Skin or eye contact:
May cause irritation or burning of the eyes. Repeated or prolonged liquid contact may cause skin irritation with discomfort and dermatitis.
Other Potential Health Effects in addition to those listed above:
1,6-hexamethylene diisocyanate
Overexposure may cause asthma-like reactions with shortness of breath, wheezing, cough, which may be permanent; or permanent lung sensitization. This effect may
be delayed for several hours after exposure. The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: asthma, skin disorders, respiratory disorders.
Overexposure may cause damage to any of the following organs/systems: lungs, skin. Potential skin sensitizer that may cause allergic reactions and contact dermatitis
resulting in severe irritation, dryness, and cracking of the skin.
4-chlorobenzotrifluoride
Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: skin. Prolonged or repeated exposure
may cause damage to any of the following organs/systems: kidneys, liver, thyroid. Potential skin sensitizer that may cause allergic reactions and contact dermatitis
resulting in severe irritation, dryness, and cracking of the skin. Ingestion may cause any of the following: gastrointestinal irritation. Eye contact may cause any of the
following: permanent eye injury. Inhalation may cause any of the following: stupor (central nervous system depression), respiratory tract irritation.
Acetone
The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: lung disease, eye disorders, skin disorders. Overexposure may cause damage to any of the following
organs/systems:
Aliphatic polyisocyanate resin
Overexposure may cause asthma-like reactions with shortness of breath, wheezing, cough, which may be permanent; or permanent lung sensitization. This effect may
be delayed for several hours after exposure. The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: asthma, skin disorders, respiratory disorders. Potential
skin sensitizer that may cause allergic reactions and contact dermatitis resulting in severe irritation, dryness, and cracking of the skin.
Aromatic hydrocarbon-A
Laboratory studies with rats have shown that petroleum distillates can cause kidney damage and kidney or liver tumors. These effects were not seen in similar studies
with guinea pigs, dogs, or monkeys. Several studies evaluating petroleum workers have not shown a significant increase of kidney damage or an increase in kidney or
liver tumors.
Aromatic hydrocarbon-B
The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: skin disorders. Laboratory studies with rats have shown that petroleum distillates can cause kidney
damage and kidney or liver tumors. These effects were not seen in similar studies with guinea pigs, dogs, or monkeys. Several studies evaluating petroleum workers
have not shown a significant increase of kidney damage or an increase in kidney or liver tumors.
Butyl acetate
May cause abnormal liver function. The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: respiratory system. Tests for embryotoxic activity in animals has
been inconclusive. Rats exposed to very high airborne levels have exhibited high frequency hearing deficits. The significance of this to man is unknown. Has been toxic
to the fetus in laboratory animals at doses that are toxic to the mother.
Cumene
WARNING: This chemical is known to the State of California to cause cancer.
Diisobutyl ketone
The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: asthma, blood, dermatitis. Contact may cause skin irritation with discomfort or rash. Repeated
exposure may cause allergic skin rash, itching, swelling. This substance may cause damage to any of the following organs/systems: eyes, kidneys, liver. Extremely high
oral and inhalation doses in laboratory animals have shown weight changes in various organs such as the liver, kidney, brain, heart and adrenal gland. In addition liver
and kidney injury were observed at the extremely high inhalation level. In another inhalation study there was a slight depression in the white blood cell count. Liquid or
vapor causes irritation, experienced as stinging, excess blinking and tear production, with excess redness and swelling of the conjuctiva.
Copyright 2011 E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company. All rights reserved. Copies may be made only for those using DuPont products.
MSDS 12
Isocyanate Activators, Hardeners,
and Additives DuPont Performance Coatings
Material Safety Data Sheet
January 1, 2013
Page: 3
Ethanol, 2-(2-butoxyethoxy)-
Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: central nervous system, eyes, kidneys,
liver, skin. Tests in laboratory animals have shown effects on any of the following organs/systems: blood, kidneys, liver. Recurrent overexposure may result in liver and
kidney injury. High doses in laboratory animals have shown non specific effects such as irritation, weight loss, moderate blood changes. Eye contact may cause any of
the following: severe irritation, burns, corneal injury.
Ethyl acetate
Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: eyes, respiratory system, skin. Tests in
laboratory animals have shown effects on any of the following organs/systems: blood, kidneys, liver.
Ethylbenzene
Is an IARC, NTP or OSHA carcinogen. Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following:
central nervous system, kidneys, liver, lungs. Recurrent overexposure may result in liver and kidney injury. Studies in laboratory animals have shown reproductive,
embryotoxic and developmental effects. WARNING: This chemical is known to the State of California to cause cancer.
Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether acetate
May destroy red blood cells. May cause abnormal kidney function. May cause temporary upper respiratory and/or lung irritation with cough, difficult breathing, or
shortness of breath. The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: central nervous system, gastrointestinal system, kidneys, liver, dermatitis. Can be
absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts. Overexposure may cause damage to any of the following organs/systems: blood, kidneys, liver. Ingestion may cause
headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, and drowsiness.
Heptane
Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: central nervous system, respiratory
system, skin. May cause central nervous system effects such as dizziness, headache, nausea, and loss of consciousness. Laboratory studies with rats have shown that
petroleum distillates can cause kidney damage and kidney or liver tumors. These effects were not seen in similar studies with guinea pigs, dogs, or monkeys. Several
studies evaluating petroleum workers have not shown a significant increase of kidney damage or an increase in kidney or liver tumors. Aspiration may occur during
swallowing or vomiting, resulting in lung damage.
Isobutyl alcohol
Has shown carcinogenic activity in laboratory animals at high doses. Significance to man is unknown. May cause irritation of the mucous membranes. May cause
abnormal liver function. Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: eyes, respiratory
system, skin. Tests in laboratory animals have shown effects on any of the following organs/systems: bone marrow, liver. Prolonged skin contact may cause chemical
burns. Liquid splashes in the eye may result in chemical burns.
Isophorone diisocyanate homopolymer
May cause temporary upper respiratory and/or lung irritation with cough, difficult breathing, or shortness of breath. Overexposure may cause asthma-like reactions with
shortness of breath, wheezing, cough, which may be permanent; or permanent lung sensitization. This effect may be delayed for several hours after exposure. Repeated
and prolonged overexposure may cause delayed effects involving the respiratory system. Repeated overexposure to isocyanates may cause lung injury, including a
decrease in lung function, which may be permanent. Overexposure may cause damage to any of the following organs/systems: lungs, skin. The following medical
conditions may be aggravated by overexposure: asthma, eye disorders, eczema, skin disorders, respiratory disorders.
Isopropyl alcohol
The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: dermatitis, respiratory disease. Developmental toxicity was seen in rat’s offspring at doses that were
maternally toxic. Contact may cause skin irritation with discomfort or rash. Can be absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts. Contact will cause moderate to severe
redness and swelling, itching, tingling sensation, painful burning. May cause injury to the cornea of the eyes. Prolonged or repeated exposure may cause damage to any
of the following organs/systems: liver. Ingestion studies on laboratory animals showed that very high oral doses caused increased liver and kidney weights. Aspiration
may occur during swallowing or vomiting, resulting in lung damage. May cause central nervous system depression with headache, stupor, uncoordinated or strange
behavior, or unconsciousness. Irritating to the mouth, throat and stomach. May cause irritation of the respiratory tract, experienced as nasal discomfort and discharge,
coughing and possibly accompanied by chest pain. Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause drying, cracking, or irritation. Ingestion may cause headache, nausea,
vomiting, dizziness, and drowsiness. Swallowing significant amounts of substance could cause serious injury, even death.
Methyl ethyl ketone
Material is irritating to mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract. Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting
disease of any of the following: central nervous system, eyes, respiratory system, skin. Prolonged or repeated overexposure may cause any of the following:
conjunctivitis, dermatitis. High concentrations have caused embryotoxic effects in laboratory animals. Aspiration may occur during swallowing or vomiting, resulting in
lung damage. Ingestion may cause headache, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, and drowsiness.
Methyl isoamyl ketone
Extremely high oral doses in laboratory animals have shown weight changes in various organs such as the liver, kidney and adrenal gland. In addition liver injury was
observed.
Methyl isobutyl ketone
WARNING: This chemical is known to the State of California to cause cancer.
N-beta-(aminoethyl)-gamma-aminopropyltrimethoxysilane
May cause allergic skin reaction. Can produce skin sensitization in animals.
Naphthalene
Is an IARC, NTP or OSHA carcinogen. Tests in some laboratory animals demonstrate carcinogenic activity. Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be
observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: kidneys, liver. Recurrent overexposure may result in liver and kidney injury. WARNING: This chemical
is known to the State of California to cause cancer.
Copyright 2011 E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company. All rights reserved. Copies may be made only for those using DuPont products.
MSDS 12
Isocyanate Activators, Hardeners,
and Additives DuPont Performance Coatings
Material Safety Data Sheet
January 1, 2013
Page: 4
Propylene glycol methyl ether
Tests in laboratory animals have shown effects on any of the following organs/systems: kidneys, liver. Aspiration may occur during swallowing or vomiting, resulting in
lung damage.
Salicylic acid
Individuals with preexisting diseases of the liver or kidneys may have increased susceptibility to the toxicity of excessive exposures. Skin permeation can occur in
amounts capable of producing the effects of systemic toxicity.
Substituted benzotriazole
The following medical conditions may be aggravated by exposure: jaundice, liver disease. Repeated or prolonged ingestion may cause any of the following: changes in
the blood, liver effects.
Toluene
Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: central nervous system, kidneys, liver,
respiratory system, skin. Can be absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts. Recurrent overexposure may result in liver and kidney injury. High airborne levels have
produced irregular heart beats in animals and occasional palpitations in humans. Rats exposed to very high airborne levels have exhibited high frequency hearing
deficits. The significance of this to man is unknown. WARNING: This chemical is known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.
Trixylenyl phosphate
Has produced nervous system effects (such as weakness and tremors) in studies on laboratory animals.
Vm&p naphtha
Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: central nervous system, kidneys, liver,
lungs, respiratory system, skin. This substance may cause damage to any of the following organs/systems: central nervous system, kidneys, liver, lungs, skin and eyes.Material may be harmful or fatal if swallowed.
Xylene
Increased susceptibility to the effects of this material may be observed in people with preexisting disease of any of the following: bone marrow, cardiovascular system,
central nervous system, kidneys, liver, lungs. Recurrent overexposure may result in liver and kidney injury. High exposures may produce irregular heart beats. Canada
classifies Xylene as a developmental toxin as high exposures to xylenes in some animal studies have been reported to cause health effects on the developing
fetus/embryo. These effects were often at levels toxic to the adult animal. The significance of these effects to humans is not known. Repeated or prolonged skin contact
may cause any of the following: irritation, dryness, cracking of the skin.


Like I said REALLY NASTY STUFF.

Here is an example of a car I did with spray cans. It was done using Duplicolor Mirage red to blue www.duplicolor.com/products/mirage/ . It was first sprayed black then the color coat was applied, The flames were done using 4 different colors of spray paint. Although the car was done with spray cans it has been topcoated with urethane clearcoat as the clear sold with the kit is absolute garbage. It has no UV protection and will not protect the paint from gasoline. This method would probably be the best for someone on a budget with limited skils and equiment.





For the novice I would recommend this approach but have a pro shop apply the clear coat.

Many other effects can be achieved using clear coat additives such as www.paintwithpearl.com/. This is by far the least expensive way to customize your paint. $11.00 for enough powder to do about 3 gallons of clear [depends on the mix ratio]. They have pearls, ghost pearls, candies, metal flakes, color shifting and even temp sensitive additives.

My GT2 was done by first spraying with black base then I added 1.5 tsp of red ghost pearl powder to a gallon of clear. It was then topped with straight clear. I still have 3/4 of a bag of powder left over.



Body work and prep is the key.
Also note that when using professional products and a spray gun you will need paint/hardener/clear, proper grit sand paper, 3m sanding pads {scratchy pads you do your dishes with} high build primer, oil and wax remover, final wash cleaner, extra reducer, lacquer thinner to clean up your tools, mixing cups, mixing stick, paint filters, adequate ventilation, large compressor.....

Also a paint gun where the cup is below the nozzle, siphon fed, is easier to get great results than the newer gravity fed guns unless you spend a lot on the gun.

WOW, you made one of the PM Trike!
Which motor cycle did you use?
MORE PICTURES!!!!!!!

NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As you can see on my web site skip20corner.com, I built the camper on the VW Bus with a Pinto V6 in the rear.
Also built the Trike with a Mazda 1.8 Tubro.

Nice work.
I do have the plans ($200.00) for the new XR3 Hybrid.

Hey trimagnum. What cruise night is that? I'm from the southside of chicago to.

Your right down 394 from me. I live in Lansing. Have you been to our cruise night? I didnt know crete had one. I know alot of towns have been getting a cruise night going.Ill have to try to make it out there this summer.