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Post by qqelectriccar on Mar 13, 2011 15:32:53 GMT -5
Looks like I'm going electric again, it's much easier now that I've gotten funding  I already have the GE motor that came with the car, but I'm a little confused as to what else I need. I like this website, good prices and their kits are specifically for vw's www.e-volks.com/about3.html?Here's how it will work in my head: Get the controller and the potbox, and 8x 12 volt batteries on my own. The charger that came with the car puts out 96 volts, so that makes sense...right? I feel like I'm missing something, everywhere I read on the internet people who do this are experts, how do I know what kind of batteries to buy? Thanks |
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Post by mwilson on Mar 13, 2011 16:59:52 GMT -5
Batteries depends on budget. I have a 156V system that uses 100AH LiFEPO4 batteries. These are lightweight and as I am in my second year of using these (in a Sparrow) - I would gladly spend the money again. This cost was $7K + the cost of the miniBMS system + the cost to convert my battery cable terminals. Because my pack is much larger than what I use, the depth of discharge is only 50%. What this translates to is extended life of the battery pack - possibly 10 years. My best advice is to get one of the many conversion books that are out there. It will explain all the parts and pieces that need to go together. Are you driving a twoie or a GT? I am converting a GT II but am knee deep in fixing the car's mechanical problems. Original wiring that needs replacement, converting drums to rotors, replacing pans, etc..... Mannyman has a good site, you find access on www.evalbum.com, plus many other great EVs. Good luck, Matt |
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Post by mrbigh on Mar 13, 2011 17:25:30 GMT -5
Regular flooded car batteries are the standard low budget approach.
You have to paid attention to the physical sized or battery category type of these in order to make your batteries boxes; but I think you should already have some with the E type body.
You must have that original charger check to verify that's in electrical OK performance. It must be already 30 years old and have some dry electrolytic capacitors.
Horacio
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Post by qqelectriccar on Mar 13, 2011 17:30:38 GMT -5
mwilson: Its a GTE actuallyyy, and I'm one step ahead of you, I just spent about a month doing the same minus the brake upgrade mrbigh: Sounds about right, there are two trays on either side of the motor on the back and one big one in the front. I should have plenty of room. Somebody on another site recommended this book www.motherearthnews.com/shopping/browse.aspx?searchtype=I&search=1764Hopefully I'll learn a thing or two. Other than that my setup looks ok? |
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Post by mwilson on Mar 13, 2011 17:50:58 GMT -5
qqelectriccar,
Good for you to have a GTE already. When I was looking to buy one, the price was more than I wanted to pay and the antiquated electronics were too scary for my knowledge base. Besides I had the guts to an EV sitting in my garage for about 6 years now.
If you're looking to have to replace anything, EV Trading Post can have some deals on newer used components.
I had sealed lead batteries in previous cars, including AGMs; now that I'm Lithium, I will never go SLA again. This has been the most trouble free, reliable battery pack I've ever owned. Believe me, I cut my EV chops on killing a couple of SLA packs.
If there's an EV group in your area, consider joining.
Matt
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alex
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by alex on Mar 15, 2011 14:43:59 GMT -5
The original configuration is 16x6 volt = 96V. I'm going with Optima yellow tops X 10 = 120V, modern controller, new charger. The old school controller (whistler) from a forklift will handle 120V easily and is made for a GE 20Hp motor. The Curtis controller is a much smaller package tho.
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Post by qqelectriccar on Mar 16, 2011 15:23:40 GMT -5
This is all good news, and that's a great site! An open revolt sounds like a much better deal than the curtis I was looking at, if it will work for me
alex, what controller specifically are you using? And what gauge wiring is recomended for 120 or 144v? The remains of wire in my GTE aren't all that thick
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Post by mrbigh on Mar 16, 2011 17:06:14 GMT -5
This is all good news, and that's a great site! An open revolt sounds like a much better deal than the curtis I was looking at, if it will work for me alex, what controller specifically are you using? And what gauge wiring is recommended for 120 or 144v? The remains of wire in my GTE aren't all that thick I'm building the newest Re-Volt controller, better spec's and lower pricing than any commercial equipment. Your best option for stringing the batteries will be 4/0 or 3/0 welding cable; it's not the matter of the voltage (144 or 72V), is the current that will go through the cables and connectors when required by the push of the speed pedal. Smaller gauge wiring will make a higher resistance and heat up the "wiring" by consequence. Remember that you will have batteries up front, in the rear deck and probably in the engine area.....It will be a lot of cable. Besides, you will have to fuse appropriately the battery power source and include a safety power disconnect in case of an EMERGENCY. Horacio |
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Post by mwilson on Mar 16, 2011 20:20:54 GMT -5
Not to disagree with Mrbigh but I use 2/0 in my Sparrow. Even then, I rarely use more than 200 amps in my bird and anticipate that I won't use much more in the Bradley. (Thundersky Batteries shouldn't go beyond 200 amps anyway unless it's "pulse.") Also I'm a Hypermiler that likes to challenge myself by seeing just how slow I can go. Who cares how slow I go if there's no one behind me? Right??
Thanks,
Matt
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Post by mrbigh on Mar 16, 2011 21:16:12 GMT -5
Not to disagree with Mrbigh but I use 2/0 in my Sparrow. Even then, I rarely use more than 200 amps in my bird and anticipate that I won't use much more in the Bradley. (Thundersky Batteries shouldn't go beyond 200 amps anyway unless it's "pulse.") Also I'm a Hypermiler that likes to challenge myself by seeing just how slow I can go. Who cares how slow I go if there's no one behind me? Right?? Thanks, Matt Matt, the environment of your Sparrow is much smaller than a GT II and hence, less power cables. In mine, I'm expecting to use a total of no under 30' with experimental car batteries (lead acid); with lithium you're stringing with solid or flexible straps and is a more direct and sound connection. Your is the way to go but I'm shy of $10K for the lithiums. mwilson, are you in the evalbum.com? |
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Post by qqelectriccar on Mar 19, 2011 0:05:45 GMT -5
Great! One last question, how hard will it be to configure an open ReVolt? And does it really just take any voltage and use it? I was hoping to wire everything and go up and down my driveway with a few old car batteries before I spend a few hundred dollars on batteries
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Post by mrbigh on Mar 19, 2011 8:59:15 GMT -5
Great! One last question, how hard will it be to configure an open ReVolt? And does it really just take any voltage and use it? I was hoping to wire everything and go up and down my driveway with a few old car batteries before I spend a few hundred dollars on batteries To build the Open-Revolt is sort of complex, but the project is designed to be completed by anybody with a little background in mechanical and electrical assembly and with some sort of computer oriented knowledge. This equipment, the Open-Revolt, will work efficiently from 4 car batteries in series (48V) as a test, and as long these are charge-up, it will move you around; not at a great speed but it will with the motor you already have. |
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Post by qqelectriccar on Mar 19, 2011 12:59:32 GMT -5
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Post by mrbigh on Mar 19, 2011 14:04:54 GMT -5
That controller will take you to the winner circle; already assembled it's saving you a lot of headaches in parts ordering. Their sale price is reasonable and it's being offer a warranty. Go for it. About the motor; it should take 144VDC without any problem but so far, we do not know the commutator and brushes conditions. You will never know how abused it was or if it ever put some miles. Also, years of sitting installed in the chassis with out being use may lead to some internal insulation corrosion. To get more precise info, you will have to dismantle the motor for observation and assessment or... you could wait until the motor is spinning and take any action thereafter. PS: Ask the builder what controller board version it is and what type of semiconductors the controller has in the output power stage. |
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Post by qqelectriccar on Mar 19, 2011 14:33:37 GMT -5
There are a few things about the car that suggest it's barely been driven, namely the odometer has 121 miles on it ;D Also the guy who I got the car from has another motor for whatever reason, so if this motor fails he said I am welcome to that one. It does spin nice though.
Do you know if I'll be able to use the pot box that comes with the car? It has 4 wires, I'm gunna play around with it hooked up to a volt meter and see what kind of values I get
Thanks for all your help
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Post by mrbigh on Mar 19, 2011 14:45:31 GMT -5
There are a few things about the car that suggest it's barely been driven, namely the odometer has 121 miles on it ;D Also the guy who I got the car from has another motor for whatever reason, so if this motor fails he said I am welcome to that one. It does spin nice though. Do you know if I'll be able to use the pot box that comes with the car? It has 4 wires, I'm gunna play around with it hooked up to a volt meter and see what kind of values I get Thanks for all your help The speed control should go from 0 to 5K (5000) Ohms average and that's the standard value. Also, that pot box should have an interlock mini switch in withing the case. |
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Post by mwilson on Mar 26, 2011 22:20:15 GMT -5
Don't forget to put a spring on the other side of the cable with your potbox so there's a little extra tension. Finally making some EV progress on my conversion. If this brake issue ever gets resolved then I might get to have the car off the jacks! I'm now on EV Album. (Too much pressure from MrBigh) : ) evalbum.com/3724You can get to my blog from the page at EV Album. Matt |
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Post by thehag71 on Mar 27, 2011 2:54:07 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. You are gonna spend alot of money for batteries to get you to your required voltage, to make a car that has about a 200 mile range, that is gonna cost you extra money on your electric bill for the charging of the batteries for what purpose? Why not just convert everything to a regular gas fed vw beetle engine, drive the car and enjoy it? Don't get me wrong, as I can appreciate the challenges of building and running an electric vehicle, but I just don't see any advantages to it. Once I figure in the cost of batteries, controllers, wiring, and all the other misc. stuff that I am sure I would need, in addition to the increased cost on my electric bill every month, plus the replacement cost of batteries every couple of years, the car would have to be my main source of transportation for at least ten years before I even re-couped my initial investment, let alone realized any cost savings. I would just put a gas fed vw in it and call it done and drive the piss out of it. I like the fact that you are wiling to put the work into it and then be able to drive it, I just don't see any benefit to it. If any one would care to enlighten me, I would gladly listen to what you have to say and then make a maybe better informed opinion of the subject.
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Post by qqelectriccar on Mar 27, 2011 20:19:45 GMT -5
I'm no expert, but it really shouldn't be that much work at all. If you didn't know the car is a GTE, meaning it's always been an electric car. So I already have a motor mated to the trans axle, all of the gauges are in place, and the suspension is beefy enough to handle the batteries. Also, I will mainly be driving the car to college and work, both of which have agreed to provide a plug. Even if it takes $1000 worth of batteries, and they last 5 years, nothing gas powered short of a scooter can operate for $200 a year when you figure gas, oil, and maintenance.
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alex
Junior Member
Posts: 62
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Post by alex on Mar 27, 2011 21:32:19 GMT -5
okeydokey, here are some reasons to go electric :
1. Maintenance costs that go away are oil changes, belts, hoses, cooling system, exhaust system, gasoline carburetion /injection, oil&gas&air filters, emission control equipment. In the three years that I drove an EV daily I replaced brake pads and tires. Thats it.
2. Charging is done during the night, off peak, so its pretty cheap. Household electricity costs a few cents per kwh x a few kwh = maybe a buck to charge?
3. Modern, flooded lead-acid batteries (low tech) can take 2000 charge cycles, more or less. If you charge every night to commute + opportunity charge during the day thats 1000 days between battery changes.
4. Mean Time Before Failure for an industrial DC motor is about 100,000 hours. At 50 mph thats 5 million miles to replace the motor.
6. Electric power generation is performed at a single, controlled pollution source outside the metropolitan area, gasoline is burned at a millions of point sources all over the city.
7. Its a zero emmision green thing so the chicks dig it 8<)
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Post by smyrnaguy on Mar 28, 2011 8:41:38 GMT -5
I almost wish I had built car # 1 as an electric. Brad #2 will be electric for the same reason I converted my home to all electric this year. I can compost and cap and compress and perhaps generate 1 tank of burnable gas per year. I've been collecting solar cells for a while and my windmill goes up in another month or so. Here on the coast there's almost always wind and sunshine is readily available nearly 300 days per year. I think the one thing that most attracts me to an electric is the noise. Or lack of it.
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Post by mwilson on Mar 30, 2011 0:05:51 GMT -5
I've been driving electric cars for over 7 years. I've had some good times and some bad experiences. Why do I do it? Why do some folks like to go to the beach vs hiking in the forest? It's about choices. Sure there are some great reasons to drive electric but it's not for everyone. That's why it's a choice. I'm not here to convince folks like thehag71 whether to drive electric or not because they usually have already made up there mind and really there is no rationale that will convince them anyway. Is my electric car going to save the earth? Heck no. Is this going to stop funding the war on terror? Sadly, not. Will it achieve an instantaneous payback rate? Nope. But in my mind, it's a really cool hobby.
Cheers,
Matt
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Post by thehag71 on Mar 30, 2011 3:20:12 GMT -5
I am not questioning anyones choices on what they drive, I just want some more information. For me, I will still go the gas engined route, mainly because I am more familiar with their setup and operation, but if I came across the right deal on an electric vehicle would I buy it? Yeah, I would. If it comes down to cost of running and maintaining either a gas or electric vehicle, I am still up in the air. If I were starting from a vehicle that doesn't go down the road under its own power, I would still go with a gas engine, mainly because I can have a gas powered vehicle on the road cheaper than I could have an electric. That may be subject to opinion, but there are not too many junkyards that have bunches of electric vehicles to scrounge parts from, whereas I can go to almost any junkyard and get what I need for a gas engined vehicle.
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Post by mwilson on Mar 31, 2011 23:49:21 GMT -5
The conversion process is expensive - no doubt. However, a thrifty minded person would look at EV Trading Post or EV Album and search "for Sale." I found my 1984 converted Pulsar that way. It was only 25 miles away from me and the guy who converted it sold it to me for $2K. He asked me if I was buying it for the components and I thought that was odd at the time. When I figured out what the cost of the components were, I realized I got one heck of a deal. I'm not having to buy new wire, motor, controller, vacuum pump, contactor, charger, etc.. That's saving me a lot of dough! A smart person could buy a beat up old clunker of a conversion, rip out the major parts and save a lot on their conversion cost. But you have to know what you're looking for.
Matt
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Post by mwilson on Jun 26, 2011 20:13:35 GMT -5
I saw this the other day on Youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRJ4UyTEqssThe title is "16 year old builds electric car"....the car just happens to be a Bradley GT II : ) Of course a 96V Lead Sled isn't going to be a racer. But still - good for him. |
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Post by mwilson on Jul 9, 2011 12:04:22 GMT -5
BTW,
I finally got my wheels to turn. The 1967 swingaxle was the problem. 12V model assumed, 6V model reality. I had to grind down the flywheel, order a new clutch brake and make an adjustment to the adaptor hub. It works BUT then I noticed the motor is only rated for 96V which means it shouldn't go past 120V. I ordered a new Impulse 9 motor (the last one they had) which can go up to 170V. (I hate to see 36V of lithium sitting around collecting dust when it cost over $100 for each cell.)
Getting close and getting excited. Unfortunately, in WA state, I have to get the car inspected before I can get it licensed.
Thanks,
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Post by qqelectriccar on Jul 9, 2011 19:26:13 GMT -5
Good for you man! You're moving much faster than I am. The guy on EV Tradin' Post just finished building me an open ReVolt and it should be here soon
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Post by mrbigh on Jul 9, 2011 22:41:12 GMT -5
BTW, I finally got my wheels to turn. The 1967 swingaxle was the problem. 12V model assumed, 6V model reality. I had to grind down the flywheel, order a new clutch brake and make an adjustment to the adaptor hub. It works BUT then I noticed the motor is only rated for 96V which means it shouldn't go past 120V. I ordered a new Impulse 9 motor (the last one they had) which can go up to 170V. (I hate to see 36V of lithium sitting around collecting dust when it cost over $100 for each cell.) Getting close and getting excited. Unfortunately, in WA state, I have to get the car inspected before I can get it licensed. Thanks, Matt, why did you bough another motor? Any common fork lift motor that is rated at 48VDC can be spin as a trany engine at 76 and 92 VDC with out many modifications (advancing the brushes timing) If your original one is factory "rated" at 96VDC, you will be able to run 144 vdc with out any inconvenience' . Man, you should ask for guidance before embarking in an extra expense. But that's your wallet. I'm still battling with the final revision of the motor controller firmware, but it's getting there, really soon. |
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Post by mwilson on Jul 9, 2011 23:23:25 GMT -5
Mrbigh,
I did ask for advice from an EV engineer - Ron Anderson from Black Sheep Technologies. He's very opposed to running DC motors way over their rated voltage as this can lead to a premature death. My original plan was to use the motor from my Sparrow as it's rated for 156V but because the Sparrow motor is very unique and considered undersized for a Bradley he recommended I get an Impulse 9. I'll probably sell the old motor and 120V Curtis controller I have on EV Trading Post to cover some of the costs.
Thanks,
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Post by mwilson on Jul 9, 2011 23:27:39 GMT -5
qqelectricar,
I can't wait to hear what kind of results you get with the Revolt. Too bad they don't make a higher voltage unit yet (156). I hope the amperage is enough to get you where you want to be on acceleration. I've looked at it but haven't compared it to others. The price is right!
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