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Post by larry9j on Sept 8, 2012 14:57:15 GMT -5
guys,
I need help with this one. I have a 72 vw dual port 1600 engine in a Bradley gt ll that I am restoring.
My problem is with the engine, it is equipped with a 34 pict 3 carburetor (rebuilt) and an early bosch 009 distributor, and will not idle down to correct speed (800-900 rpm).
The engine starts very easy, however, only wants to run fast. The more the chocke is opened up the faster it will run . I have tried the timing at 5 degrees after tdc and 10,5 and 7.5 degrees before tdc with the same results, only wants to run wide open.
I have changed the intake boots and manifold gaskets twice with
no change in engine speed.
Can anyone out there be of assistance?
Thanking you in advance for much needed help.
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Post by jspbtown on Sept 8, 2012 15:09:41 GMT -5
With an 009 you want to time it at about 2200-2500 and get about 28-30 degrees for the advance. Then adjust your mixture, then adjust your idle speed.
On the idle speed screw is the lever touching the screw and still idling too high? What if you disconnect the cable?
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Post by larry9j on Sept 8, 2012 16:33:27 GMT -5
idle speed screw is backed off and throttle cable is disconnected, still runs wide open if you open the choke. The more you open the choke the faster it runs.
The way it is now it does no good to try and adjust the carb--adjustment has no effect on engine.
Do you mean 2200-2500 rpm?
Thanks,
Larry
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Post by jspbtown on Sept 8, 2012 17:48:59 GMT -5
yes...2200-2500 rpm
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Post by centralvalleygter on Sept 8, 2012 17:56:08 GMT -5
Yes, he probably does mean 2500 rpm. If you cannot get it to idle, then you have to set the timing with it fully advanced which takes place at that RPM and is 28-30 degrees before TDC as opposed to 7.5 degrees TDC before the advance kicks in. If you had a vacuum advance distributor then you could pull the vacuum line and know it is not advancing and therefore set it at the 7.5 to TDC at the lowest RPM you can obtain. However, with the centrifigal advance distributor and no idle available you must adjust it to the fully advanced setting.
Warmest....
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Post by larry9j on Sept 8, 2012 18:18:21 GMT -5
ok, guys
the timing has been set at 2200rpm-no difference, the engine just sets there and screams away idling at least 50 mile per hour.
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Post by centralvalleygter on Sept 8, 2012 18:30:10 GMT -5
The only ways in my mind that it can run at a high RPM and not slow down is if the butterfly valve in the carb is not closing or there is a leak in the manifold, or an unconnected vacuum line is not plugged (or a connected vacuum line is leading somewhere open to the atmosphere) or the carb is missing some major components. If those can be eliminated, then I am also bewildered.
Warmest Regards.....
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Post by skip20 on Sept 8, 2012 20:59:47 GMT -5
The only ways in my mind that it can run at a high RPM and not slow down is if the butterfly valve in the carb is not closing or there is a leak in the manifold, or an unconnected vacuum line is not plugged (or a connected vacuum line is leading somewhere open to the atmosphere) or the carb is missing some major components. If those can be eliminated, then I am also bewildered. Warmest Regards..... Don't forget the carb base gaskets & spacers. You can spray carb cleaner around any area which you think there is a leak, if the engine RPM changes then you found your leak! |
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Post by centralvalleygter on Sept 9, 2012 9:57:44 GMT -5
Good call on my miss Skip!
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Post by skip20 on Sept 9, 2012 15:44:42 GMT -5
Good call on my miss Skip! Hee-Hee ;D ;D and I don't even work on VW! |
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Post by larry9j on Sept 9, 2012 16:45:54 GMT -5
ok guys,
a little update-- i checked the throttle plate in the carb and it is not stuck and seems to be operating correctly. also the spray trick is negative, probabley due to the extreme high idle speed. also could not find any apparent vacuum leaks.
a note of interest, the prior owner had the same problem but never did attempt to correct it.
thanks very much for your response to date.
larry
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Post by jspbtown on Sept 9, 2012 18:46:54 GMT -5
What happens when you put your hand over the top of the carb? Does it keep running or stall out?
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Post by larry9j on Sept 9, 2012 19:46:06 GMT -5
engine dies
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Post by Gary Hammond on Sept 9, 2012 20:20:40 GMT -5
Hi Larry,  Seems like a remember a discussion on the old board where it is necessary to solder closed a hole in the throttle plate of the 34 Pict-3 to accommodate the 009 distributor in order to get a richer idle fuel mix to make up for the loss of vacuum advance. It also helps to avoid stumble and/or a "flat spot" on initial acceleration. If someone enlarged the idle fuel jet instead, it would probably cause the idle speed to be too fast with the 009. The 34 Pict-3 is designed to be used with an all vacuum advance dizzy.  You can probably find this by doing a search on the Samba. I'm a little fuzzy on the details, as I run aftermarket fuel injection on mine. Gary Hammond,   P.S. A good work around would be to replace the 34 Pict-3 with a set of dual Kadrons.  |
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gtjim
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by gtjim on Sept 9, 2012 20:37:51 GMT -5
Idle jet missing?
Jim
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Post by Gary Hammond on Sept 9, 2012 21:01:01 GMT -5
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Post by jspbtown on Sept 10, 2012 7:09:19 GMT -5
Something is wrong. If you cover the carb and it dies that certainly suggests you don't have a vacuum leak. Large vacuum leaks will actually run better when you slightly cover the carb. For it to run wildly and uncontrollably with the butterfly closed defies any explanation that I know of.
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Post by horen2tas on Sept 10, 2012 8:32:13 GMT -5
If the problem is pointing towards the carb., why not pull it off and switch it with another that you know is good and see if the same thing happens. My two cents worth is maybe there's a crack in the float bowl or around a jet and its feeding gas from below--internally or the float is not working right.
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Post by Wyn on Sept 10, 2012 8:59:52 GMT -5
Larry
Is your throttle return spring connected to the throttle butterfly valve? This spring could have been broken or rusted and fallen off. A vaccum leak can not give the engine enough air to run that fast. You need that spring to hold the butterfly valve closed to the idle stop.
Wyn
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Post by skip20 on Sept 10, 2012 9:16:08 GMT -5
Hey, we better got the fix for this when he finds it!!!!!! |
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Post by larry9j on Sept 10, 2012 18:59:25 GMT -5
hey guys,
the throttle spring is intact and working correctly and the carb throttle valve is closing.
I have changed a couple of plugged vacuum lines and will start it tomorrow and see what i have.
This carb has a second arm ,similiar to the throttle arm, and it has it own adjustment, but just seems to flop around. Any one know the purpose of this arm? I can't find it in an exploded view of a 34 pict 3.
Thanks for all your help
Larry
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edwardk
New Member
Mechanic
Posts: 6
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Post by edwardk on Sept 10, 2012 21:13:08 GMT -5
My PICT-3 doesn't play nice with a 009 at all. But I CAN get it to idle at about 800rpm so you probably do have something wrong with the carb. (Stating the obvious at this point methinks; sorry.) www.vw-resource.com/images/34carb_exploded_view.jpg Here's your exploded view. I hope it helps. |
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Post by Dan MacMillan on Sept 11, 2012 5:14:03 GMT -5
Is there a gap between the adj screw on the throttle arm and the choke stepped plate when the choke is wide open? I have seen people use this screw to adjust idle. It is not for base idle only fast idle when the choke is on. Another possibility is the backfire protection disk on the back of the carb. If it is blown off you will have a dime sized hole in the carb Venturi facing the rear of the vehicle.
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Post by gitrdun on Sept 11, 2012 21:01:45 GMT -5
Check the shut off solenoid thats located by the idle and mixture screws. I had a carb which had the solenoid stem missing. It clicked when you connected 12V so i assumed it was in working order. Turned out someone had broke it and removed the stem. There was no way to get the carb to idle correctly and it would die when decelerating while driving.
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Post by jspbtown on Sept 12, 2012 8:17:03 GMT -5
Idle solenoid would not cause it to idle at an "extremely high speed". The 009 also would not cause that. It will cause a terrible flat spot on acceleration but not an uncontrollable idle speed. Something is out of the ordinary. Some part of this puzzle is missing.
Maybe a picture of the carb?
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Post by larry9j on Sept 12, 2012 21:24:48 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I think I have found my problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!However first things first. I would like to thank each and every one of you who responded to my cry for help, you guys are outstanding and I feel honored to be a part of such an elite group, many thanks again.
Now to the problem-- my 34 pict 3 has 3 vacuum ports on it. The one for the distributor advance and the one for distributor retard and the third one located at the base the carb on the right front-purpose
unknown.
As a possibility I replaced the vacuum plugs on the advance port and the unknown port and guess what? I now have an engine that idles between 850 & 900 rpm. I ran it for almost 20 minutes and it now appeared to be ok even with the choke fully open, no more racing away.
I find in it hard to believe that these two vacuum ports could have
caused my problem.
Thanks again
Larry
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Post by skip20 on Sept 12, 2012 21:45:37 GMT -5
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Post by jspbtown on Sept 13, 2012 9:49:39 GMT -5
Its is almost always something very obvious. Glad you found it.
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Post by centralvalleygter on Sept 13, 2012 11:11:21 GMT -5
The only ways in my mind that it can run at a high RPM and not slow down is ... or there is a leak in the manifold, or an unconnected vacuum line is not plugged (or a connected vacuum line is leading somewhere open to the atmosphere) ... Do I win a prize? Just kidding. Warmest Regards |
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Post by TexasIceMan on Sept 13, 2012 11:44:25 GMT -5
I have been following this post with some interest to see what the solution might be. I don't have mine running, yet, so I wanted to know how you solved the problem just in case I experience similar symptoms.
I'm glad you got it running better.
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